From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Phillip Lord Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: policy discussion on bundling ELPA packages in the emacs tarball Date: Wed, 27 Jan 2021 11:10:57 +0000 Message-ID: <871re6ocse.fsf@russet.org.uk> References: <86eeifawx8.fsf@stephe-leake.org> <87czxygdl9.fsf@russet.org.uk> <86tur88izp.fsf@stephe-leake.org> <87im7mgf66.fsf@russet.org.uk> <861re87rrj.fsf@stephe-leake.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="30664"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (gnu/linux) Cc: emacs-devel To: Stephen Leake Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Wed Jan 27 12:46:32 2021 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1l4jHL-0007qe-Au for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Wed, 27 Jan 2021 12:46:31 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:43862 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1l4jHK-0008FL-B0 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Wed, 27 Jan 2021 06:46:30 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:49308) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1l4jFp-0007lX-LJ for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 27 Jan 2021 06:44:57 -0500 Original-Received: from cloud103.planethippo.com ([78.129.138.110]:57064) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1l4jFm-0000N3-3t for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 27 Jan 2021 06:44:57 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=russet.org.uk; s=default; h=Content-Type:MIME-Version:References:Message-ID :Date:In-Reply-To:Subject:Cc:To:From:Sender:Reply-To: Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date: Resent-From:Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id: List-Help:List-Unsubscribe:List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=UejXrzOdxQ2z73oiB4RyXlVEBaoJTcI0jOXWdA9cbus=; b=GxqkArkIq3gbKDgq3Lnk+6uNA viWN/nLK/0qErbehawKhP39CU1Xku4jzsISif3UwGUUHLK8cIoKVoHsU+PtfrmONXqXr/5DmI9IJG lOYJKW+8chN2CvADe4WzQvibhlD7xzgn0Q6UcHzP9F5J3o7kpQCawXxjdWzR6sd7qUsM7URMJoshq /ndKcAWV94M7o0xvh250ckzyNdGEhtH7oMVEA66ugjIogSgEXm/SCWeXh0+bQkDYFKsQBIpOpYF9T A7GCKHMNMhPTakct3r2p3ruW5dDzGRzewkoQ3gmXJ4w/+tKFpCbZ2+dAmcPA8DfGtqnqyMiyhtMT3 kd3C8btDw==; Original-Received: from cpc142648-benw12-2-0-cust627.16-2.cable.virginm.net ([82.10.74.116]:53372 helo=russet.org.uk) by cloud103.planethippo.com with esmtpsa (TLS1.2) tls TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (Exim 4.93) (envelope-from ) id 1l4jF4-00063X-MZ; Wed, 27 Jan 2021 11:44:10 +0000 In-Reply-To: <861re87rrj.fsf@stephe-leake.org> (Stephen Leake's message of "Mon, 25 Jan 2021 11:14:56 -0800") X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - cloud103.planethippo.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - gnu.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - russet.org.uk X-Get-Message-Sender-Via: cloud103.planethippo.com: authenticated_id: phillip.lord@russet.org.uk X-Authenticated-Sender: cloud103.planethippo.com: phillip.lord@russet.org.uk Received-SPF: none client-ip=78.129.138.110; envelope-from=phillip.lord@russet.org.uk; helo=cloud103.planethippo.com X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:263495 Archived-At: Stephen Leake writes: > Phillip Lord writes: > >> I solve this problem for my own packages by not installing them from >> ELPA, but from their git repos. This means normal users and me as >> developer have a different set up. > > Yes; package developers edit package code in an ELPA checkout; typically > they will also run the code from there as well for testing, by putting > that directory in load-path. > > But with bundled packages as submodules, they could switch to editing > them in the emacs workspace instead. > > The main point is that other emacs developers can also edit the package > files, to fix bugs or make changes consistent with some core emacs change. Just so, and this would be a substantial win. It is something that we get at the moment by having a monolithic repo with all its packages. Having said that, most Emacs packages do not get this. There are 3000 packages on MELPA and they just update themselves as new Emacs versions come out. An alternative solution would be strength and automate the links between a package in a repo and package.el. So, package.el would be able to main a local package that was stored in a git repo, would like to the source, but would do all the autoload generation, putting into the path and so forth. >> straight.el solves this problem in a more principled way; the package is >> the git repo, but then the package manager is completely dependent on >> git. > > From https://github.com/raxod502/straight.el. That sounds useful. The nice thing about is that it unifies package management. It worries me slightly that Emacs will be saying "Emacs uses package.el to manage packages and their dependencies". But, then when looking at bundled packages, we are saying "Emacs uses submodules". Two different systems to achieve the same thing. But, moving to the straight.el model would be a big change, of course and would require git to be available for Emacs to do any package management. This isn't true for the Windows bundle, for instance. Phil