From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: =?utf-8?Q?=C3=93scar_Fuentes?= Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Current mode command discovery Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2021 19:00:22 +0100 Message-ID: <871rdebmmh.fsf@telefonica.net> References: <87v9aubm96.fsf@gnus.org> <83a6s6bkrg.fsf@gnu.org> <87mtw6bkjo.fsf@gnus.org> <838s7qbjn2.fsf@gnu.org> <87eehi820x.fsf@gnus.org> <83v9at9xel.fsf@gnu.org> <87wnv8xlqa.fsf@gnus.org> <838s7o9g90.fsf@gnu.org> <87im6revhq.fsf@tcd.ie> <83im6r98qd.fsf@gnu.org> <87k0r7uade.fsf@gnus.org> <83eehf978r.fsf@gnu.org> <87ft1vu9hd.fsf@gnus.org> <838s7n95pf.fsf@gnu.org> <8735xvu7sx.fsf@gnus.org> <834kib94ha.fsf@gnu.org> <874kibh9mu.fsf@telefonica.net> <83o8gi7lh2.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="29643"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (gnu/linux) To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Cancel-Lock: sha1:+g6O5CRYpDzSQHLUV/p2qKmpW8Q= Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Wed Feb 17 19:02:37 2021 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1lCR9o-0007bU-OP for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Wed, 17 Feb 2021 19:02:36 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:57496 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lCR9n-0006Gm-Qn for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Wed, 17 Feb 2021 13:02:35 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:53826) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lCR7n-00057W-Gu for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 17 Feb 2021 13:00:31 -0500 Original-Received: from ciao.gmane.io ([116.202.254.214]:45264) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lCR7l-0000Gi-QS for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 17 Feb 2021 13:00:31 -0500 Original-Received: from list by ciao.gmane.io with local (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1lCR7j-0005AD-PK for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 17 Feb 2021 19:00:27 +0100 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ Received-SPF: pass client-ip=116.202.254.214; envelope-from=ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; helo=ciao.gmane.io X-Spam_score_int: -15 X-Spam_score: -1.6 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.6 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.25, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=no autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:265033 Archived-At: Eli Zaretskii writes: >> Eli Zaretskii writes: >> >> > Imagine user confusion and frustration when a command that is known to >> > Help cannot be invoked! >> >> Why would the user wish to invoke a command that makes no sense on the >> context he is working on? > > Because whoever marked it "nonsensical" made a mistake? Or because > time passed, things have changed, and what made no sense back then may > make sense now, and Emacs maintainers missed that or couldn't keep up? > > IOW, let's not assume that the marking is perfect. It's done by us, > and we can make mistakes. Yes, aka bugs. Why would we cripple a feature because it can contain bugs? >> After all, we also hide the menus of modes when they are not active >> on the current buffer. > > Menus only show a small fraction of the commands. More importantly, a > command that doesn't appear in the menus still can be invoked, so the > user does have a "fire escape" in that case. The user has many fire scapes: he can edit the function, use M-: or, simply, disable the filtering. Or implement the gesture you suggested on the paragraph I didn't quote, although that is not my preferred solution because those gestures tend to be hard to discover and remember. Nobody is suggesting that the filtering should be mandatory. Maybe we can argue about the default, but that's all (FWIW, I'm in favor of making it optional in 28 and consider it as the default for 29)