From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Joost Kremers Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Could Emacs Have a Set-up Wizard? Date: Fri, 03 Sep 2021 21:35:05 +0200 Message-ID: <871r65peql.fsf@fastmail.fm> References: <87lf4dwudp.fsf@polaris64.net> <87a6kttwl7.fsf@polaris64.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="29326"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: mu4e 1.6.3; emacs 27.2.50 Cc: Stefan Kangas , emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Simon Pugnet Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Fri Sep 03 22:54:49 2021 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1mMGD2-0007PY-6Z for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Fri, 03 Sep 2021 22:54:48 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:59924 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mMGD0-0006xC-KD for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Fri, 03 Sep 2021 16:54:46 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:55318) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mMG7D-0003s0-FY for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 03 Sep 2021 16:48:47 -0400 Original-Received: from wout3-smtp.messagingengine.com ([64.147.123.19]:56931) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mMG7B-0006tY-8f for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 03 Sep 2021 16:48:47 -0400 Original-Received: from compute4.internal (compute4.nyi.internal [10.202.2.44]) by mailout.west.internal (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8FA30320091A; Fri, 3 Sep 2021 16:48:41 -0400 (EDT) Original-Received: from mailfrontend1 ([10.202.2.162]) by compute4.internal (MEProxy); Fri, 03 Sep 2021 16:48:41 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=fastmail.fm; h= references:from:to:cc:subject:date:in-reply-to:message-id :mime-version:content-type; s=fm1; bh=PlPlMPhIu1shEY1kDJlJUol2uq fFlcWjmQVxAclnBNY=; b=I41BJg3QF4HxufYp7MsovKo6OGVf6CeTDctLSzkzal xqDDruDKnbhvGOaBHk0I5GKOpq19ndW10TB6loNCVWLpoJL2GaRmPbgSXOl7wag5 gYBvQ09rpgG7BP3wRlj9eFml6kjSA9UMmzNXR5HJ4BX9Zkl6a7w7r7rpnGpqpUlM f6oy3MOGgdEjrfhtMWPt5MRP3OFH9bcuLfEm6H8dn5N1+lRnF4pLTfwdqBi5ShJQ yCvVrhlHuwZJWTTt3hy6QDc3foH/aneyOEFJ8AWZY4DrGeKc5zyA9NBpNLStIQzl NXWzrTUnyN6Ca05WkYKexDVQZmOKqtXV6QOoMdliXsUA== DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= messagingengine.com; h=cc:content-type:date:from:in-reply-to :message-id:mime-version:references:subject:to:x-me-proxy :x-me-proxy:x-me-sender:x-me-sender:x-sasl-enc; s=fm3; bh=PlPlMP hIu1shEY1kDJlJUol2uqfFlcWjmQVxAclnBNY=; b=nuZijsTL2aWhrFhZFgObcC qPKhWZG0qRZSADYuV5w8JAxb9asgLRT2ZL1BjXlnNPqqxnFfqzm1wImaIiNtKA+t jNIVtqnmPxIfLGIdypWb4MdWdg5rZeFzivpvU7nQqsKU2eLhmNH0C5lUC6zbwQVW jrbJjtvkF4rYxa+OmPnZlbGgPozm3/sa+rYHU7wLxEsnLGEyQclDdVPCL+xfbX/X BZ8s9MxQNtbOnM5CjPTkjrhuDFPvhyQ9NTzege3evEoeCO8xNxX+Hjw4t9FATWe8 9qeqPPnwSyVuwtF1GtkE1ZA/cKlv/pvxljCU52UDjyuF8d66KmYHH3OImxzVDYhA == X-ME-Sender: X-ME-Received: X-ME-Proxy-Cause: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgedvtddruddvjedgudehudcutefuodetggdotefrod ftvfcurfhrohhfihhlvgemucfhrghsthforghilhdpqfgfvfdpuffrtefokffrpgfnqfgh necuuegrihhlohhuthemuceftddtnecusecvtfgvtghiphhivghnthhsucdlqddutddtmd enucfjughrpehffgfhvffuffgjkfggtgesthdtredttdertdenucfhrhhomheplfhoohhs thcumfhrvghmvghrshcuoehjohhoshhtkhhrvghmvghrshesfhgrshhtmhgrihhlrdhfmh eqnecuggftrfgrthhtvghrnhepveeileeltdejtefhkeevieekkeevhfdtffeuveevtdet hfetuddtjedtfedvjedvnecuffhomhgrihhnpehgihhthhhusgdrtghomhenucevlhhush htvghrufhiiigvpedtnecurfgrrhgrmhepmhgrihhlfhhrohhmpehjohhoshhtkhhrvghm vghrshesfhgrshhtmhgrihhlrdhfmh X-ME-Proxy: Original-Received: by mail.messagingengine.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA; Fri, 3 Sep 2021 16:48:40 -0400 (EDT) In-reply-to: <87a6kttwl7.fsf@polaris64.net> Received-SPF: pass client-ip=64.147.123.19; envelope-from=joostkremers@fastmail.fm; helo=wout3-smtp.messagingengine.com X-Spam_score_int: -27 X-Spam_score: -2.8 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.8 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:273819 Archived-At: On Fri, Sep 03 2021, Simon Pugnet wrote: >> Thanks. Unfortunately, the repository you link in the above blog post >> now gives 404. Could you provide a working link? > That's strange, it works fine for me. Here's the link just in case > there's an issue with my blog: https://github.com/polaris64/emacs_wizard Seems like a bug in Firefox... The href attribute of that link has the value "https://github.com/polaris64/emacs%5Fwizard", i.e., with `%5F` instead of the underscore. For some reason, Firefox's doesn't handle that correctly. In Chromium it works OK. >> This is orthogonal to the discussion about profiles, but I agree that >> it's a good idea. I also think it's a good idea, but I don't think it's entirely orthogonal to the idea of profiles. I don't really see how profiles would make it easier for new users to start using Emacs. A wizard, on the other hand, seems to me to be much better suited for that purpose. (If done right, of course.) I suspect profiles will end up adding an additional layer to the configuration. Put too many options into a profile and they'll just make Emacs' configuration more opaque, not more transparent. A new user won't have the faintest idea what choosing a certain profile entails and will either just go with the default or choose whatever is commonly suggested on the web. A wizard, on the other hand, presents a new user with a couple of choices, each of which can be explained on the spot and the necessary change to the init file made visible. Add a comment to each change with the same explanation that appears in the wizard and the new user can easily see how to undo the change if they end up not liking it. The wizard could have several screens, each with related questions. (A screen about appearance comes to mind, for example: which font to use, light or dark colour scheme, etc.) I don't think there's a real need for an `inhibit-wizard` option, BTW. The information on the startup screen is mainly intended for new users anyway, so I don't see a reason why this particular link would have to be singled out. Experienced users can disable the entire startup screen if they like, but if they don't they probably won't mind that there is a link to the wizard. In fact, I would even suggest having the wizard run automatically if no init file is found (with a button to quit the wizard, of course). -- Joost Kremers Life has its moments