From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Philip Kaludercic Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Proposal: Forwards-Compatibility Library for Emacs Date: Tue, 21 Sep 2021 13:00:16 +0000 Message-ID: <871r5it76n.fsf@posteo.net> References: <877dfavmzw.fsf@posteo.net> <83v92uxfto.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="39564"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org, Stefan Monnier , =?utf-8?B?Sm/Do28gVMOhdm9y?= =?utf-8?B?YQ==?= To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Tue Sep 21 15:02:39 2021 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1mSfPz-000A3W-45 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Tue, 21 Sep 2021 15:02:39 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:49880 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mSfPx-00081s-CJ for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Tue, 21 Sep 2021 09:02:37 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:46106) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mSfNl-0006r5-NL for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 21 Sep 2021 09:00:21 -0400 Original-Received: from mout01.posteo.de ([185.67.36.65]:40853) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mSfNj-0002aG-LC for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 21 Sep 2021 09:00:21 -0400 Original-Received: from submission (posteo.de [89.146.220.130]) by mout01.posteo.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C4EC2240029 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 2021 15:00:17 +0200 (CEST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=posteo.net; s=2017; t=1632229217; bh=XKOT7c8FQuNYhts0IsWl3hivphIgAy2NZ0JYc0LMBNw=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:Autocrypt:Date:From; b=RYxNbisGHuPT5LAW0cVd/y/CsSSuFbVYxg/Xy+GN/+0PDSbzHeayVbC8cuiHgdZDs tTJ2sZSSSLs23iymWxhkKQUNmU8HkVzKtCx/7fsXesTUTVDJJyf0Ks8B7kwDGkKyiQ 77poK45S+tup9ofSeXSMbuF78mpQNnKrXir/u/TfUX61d/kRQDPmkjSemxh0YRDnCn jtoOrwYhXFRytLwH90nLBl9VsoSlVh5hzc+2dvFzi0CEbx7OxvsMJEG/dYH+s3o3eU 5Rioq/G+i1XaEcQz+wMCtudPapE5Mt3F8XzpA2HbFCxAeDSuKq4xQ4bow40aF1kOqi hbhPeRmv48tMQ== Original-Received: from customer (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by submission (posteo.de) with ESMTPSA id 4HDM3P1JtDz9rxt; Tue, 21 Sep 2021 15:00:17 +0200 (CEST) Autocrypt: addr=philipk@posteo.net; prefer-encrypt=nopreference; keydata= mDMEYHHqUhYJKwYBBAHaRw8BAQdAp3GdmYJ6tm5McweY6dEvIYIiry+Oz9rU4MH6NHWK0Ee0QlBo aWxpcCBLYWx1ZGVyY2ljIChnZW5lcmF0ZWQgYnkgYXV0b2NyeXB0LmVsKSA8cGhpbGlwa0Bwb3N0 ZW8ubmV0PoiQBBMWCAA4FiEEDM2H44ZoPt9Ms0eHtVrAHPRh1FwFAmBx6lICGwMFCwkIBwIGFQoJ CAsCBBYCAwECHgECF4AACgkQtVrAHPRh1FyTkgEAjlbGPxFchvMbxzAES3r8QLuZgCxeAXunM9gh io0ePtUBALVhh9G6wIoZhl0gUCbQpoN/UJHI08Gm1qDob5zDxnIHuDgEYHHqUhIKKwYBBAGXVQEF AQEHQNcRB+MUimTMqoxxMMUERpOR+Q4b1KgncDZkhrO2ql1tAwEIB4h4BBgWCAAgFiEEDM2H44Zo Pt9Ms0eHtVrAHPRh1FwFAmBx6lICGwwACgkQtVrAHPRh1Fw1JwD/Qo7kvtib8jy7puyWrSv0MeTS g8qIxgoRWJE/KKdkCLEA/jb9b9/g8nnX+UcwHf/4VfKsjExlnND3FrBviXUW6NcB In-Reply-To: <83v92uxfto.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Tue, 21 Sep 2021 15:40:03 +0300") Received-SPF: pass client-ip=185.67.36.65; envelope-from=philipk@posteo.net; helo=mout01.posteo.de X-Spam_score_int: -43 X-Spam_score: -4.4 X-Spam_bar: ---- X-Spam_report: (-4.4 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:275224 Archived-At: Eli Zaretskii writes: >> From: Stefan Monnier >> Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org >> Date: Tue, 21 Sep 2021 08:31:39 -0400 >>=20 >> > By its very nature it is an intrusive package, as it defines functions, >> > macros and advice outside of the "namespace", but I don't see any way >> > around that if transparent compatibility is to be provided (anything >> > else would just replicate dash, s, f, ...). >>=20 >> I think this uncleanliness is a bit risky. Better put the definitions >> in their own namespace. I don't think "transparent compatibility" is >> worth the trouble here, and I don't think `s`, `f`, ... solve the >> same problem. > > Can symbol-renaming help here, perhaps? I believe Jo=C3=A3o is trying to > get it ready in time for Emacs 28. Going by my proposal, the library does nothing when loaded in Emacs 28.1, because it is already compatible to itself. No need for an extra layer. It is only of interest to older versions, and they won't be able to make use of symbol-renaming. --=20 Philip Kaludercic