From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Philip Kaludercic Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: What to do about unmaintained ELPA packages Date: Mon, 30 May 2022 06:58:04 +0000 Message-ID: <871qwb5wxv.fsf@posteo.net> References: <87k0a42fc9.fsf@posteo.net> <8a6d74f7-b78f-3dad-1bd5-f41354f4391f@yandex.ru> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="24411"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org, Noam Postavsky , =?utf-8?B?Sm/Do28gVMOhdm9yYQ==?= To: Dmitry Gutov Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Mon May 30 09:00:47 2022 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1nvZOQ-00069L-Gp for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Mon, 30 May 2022 09:00:46 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:51826 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1nvZOP-0004jg-2w for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Mon, 30 May 2022 03:00:45 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:52672) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1nvZM5-0003vt-5E for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 30 May 2022 02:58:21 -0400 Original-Received: from mout01.posteo.de ([185.67.36.65]:53625) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1nvZM2-0002rO-LH for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 30 May 2022 02:58:20 -0400 Original-Received: from submission (posteo.de [185.67.36.169]) by mout01.posteo.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D60A9240026 for ; Mon, 30 May 2022 08:58:12 +0200 (CEST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=posteo.net; s=2017; t=1653893892; bh=4no6tPXcfw4We0Jw5m2iYHRyD0mUY+mhSL+Hrjrq2hg=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:Autocrypt:Date:From; b=Ml7LADprlYW1YhQvM5UXfJk16ead7UTdSdtDKQpw1ShGB9NP+gwxxQ5ItcEQL/eJD O/dJyT9QH3gUU3ICYa6cVwQDz/Sso2SNsoUPbcSWqHATtFnqo/CLhNrfMXyWwBwRp0 jGo+jzmUZ0DI12hyRG49wdoB8q/1prSXRV20kbwqxdlILyO4fOTNR875zOLy2QQekg AqyNnAlnA9pyr6ClATs0GxP1ERrx/QvvFxENDHvJzaY/dhcUl7I+O8pyvfXPORU9D7 0czYxYc2+DNrojm1lQ4zHjNB0s2m8NBOS1EyCanGQTCdCo5Rqac2p4bCEoAtg+34Im 5uT9bTnlVAlrg== Original-Received: from customer (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by submission (posteo.de) with ESMTPSA id 4LBR7l6G2Cz6tmc; Mon, 30 May 2022 08:58:11 +0200 (CEST) In-Reply-To: <8a6d74f7-b78f-3dad-1bd5-f41354f4391f@yandex.ru> (Dmitry Gutov's message of "Mon, 30 May 2022 00:54:53 +0300") X-Hashcash: 1:20:220530:emacs-devel@gnu.org::OTW2sVtitSk/VTxk:0000000000000000000000000000000000000000001YKN X-Hashcash: 1:20:220530:dgutov@yandex.ru::6RBJxvDfptPV7nA5:02Gjl Autocrypt: addr=philipk@posteo.net; prefer-encrypt=nopreference; keydata= mDMEYHHqUhYJKwYBBAHaRw8BAQdAp3GdmYJ6tm5McweY6dEvIYIiry+Oz9rU4MH6NHWK0Ee0QlBo aWxpcCBLYWx1ZGVyY2ljIChnZW5lcmF0ZWQgYnkgYXV0b2NyeXB0LmVsKSA8cGhpbGlwa0Bwb3N0 ZW8ubmV0PoiQBBMWCAA4FiEEDM2H44ZoPt9Ms0eHtVrAHPRh1FwFAmBx6lICGwMFCwkIBwIGFQoJ CAsCBBYCAwECHgECF4AACgkQtVrAHPRh1FyTkgEAjlbGPxFchvMbxzAES3r8QLuZgCxeAXunM9gh io0ePtUBALVhh9G6wIoZhl0gUCbQpoN/UJHI08Gm1qDob5zDxnIHuDgEYHHqUhIKKwYBBAGXVQEF AQEHQNcRB+MUimTMqoxxMMUERpOR+Q4b1KgncDZkhrO2ql1tAwEIB4h4BBgWCAAgFiEEDM2H44Zo Pt9Ms0eHtVrAHPRh1FwFAmBx6lICGwwACgkQtVrAHPRh1Fw1JwD/Qo7kvtib8jy7puyWrSv0MeTS g8qIxgoRWJE/KKdkCLEA/jb9b9/g8nnX+UcwHf/4VfKsjExlnND3FrBviXUW6NcB Received-SPF: pass client-ip=185.67.36.65; envelope-from=philipk@posteo.net; helo=mout01.posteo.de X-Spam_score_int: -43 X-Spam_score: -4.4 X-Spam_bar: ---- X-Spam_report: (-4.4 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:290371 Archived-At: Dmitry Gutov writes: > On 30.05.2022 00:34, Philip Kaludercic wrote: >> There are some popular packages on GNU ELPA (and I expect NonGNU ELPA) >> that are practically unmaintained. One example would be Yasnippet that >> has been gathering issues and pull requests on GitHub, mostly without >> any comments whatsoever. For example, see >> https://github.com/joaotavora/yasnippet/issues. Does anyone know of any >> other packages of this kind? > > Talking about yasnippet in particular, it more in the "stable" rather > than "bitrotten" category, so I wouldn't worry about it too much. > > Or definitely not resort to measures like removing the reference to > the upstream. Considering the number of issues that have been gathering in the above mentioned issue tracker, I find it increasingly difficult to say it is "stable". It is far from being "bitrotten", but there is plenty of space between the two. >> I'd like to ask, if there some point at which should one should go from >> regarding packages like these from "de facto unmaintained" to "actually >> abandoned"? Perhaps if there was no real activity for over a year, >> despite constant contributions? Would it make sense to call for anyone >> new to take over maintaining the package? Or depending on how long the >> package has been unmaintained, how popular the package is, how much >> effort it would take to apply the changes one could modify the package >> in elpa.git/nongnu.git and inform the maintainers that if they decide to >> start working on the package again, that there are downstream changes >> that they should look at. > > Personally, carrying over the development on ELPA would seem > counter-productive. Both due to the reduced potential community of > contributors and reporters, and because of the wealth of reports, > discussions and docs that reside at the currently dormant > upstream. Kinda passive-aggressive, too. That would only be one option, perhaps the most drastic because it burdens the ELPA maintainers and contributors the most. An alternative would be to announce a package is regarded as unmaintained and that we are looking for a new maintainer to revive the package by start a fork. My intention with this thread is to formalise some kind of workflow for situations like these, so that people know what they can do if a ELPA package stagnates. > I think the best step right now would be to try to contact Noah and > ask to share commit access. And if not Noah, then Joao -- he's > definitely still around. I have CC'ed them in this message, in case they have anything to say on this specific case.