From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Po Lu Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Abysmal state of GTK build Date: Wed, 24 Aug 2022 12:25:45 +0800 Message-ID: <871qt6469i.fsf@yahoo.com> References: <8735dn30if.fsf@gmail.com> <87pmgr8m3t.fsf@yahoo.com> <83pmgr88sk.fsf@gnu.org> <87sfln6t3p.fsf@yahoo.com> <83ilmj873l.fsf@gnu.org> <8735dn6rp7.fsf@yahoo.com> <87edx7hu15.fsf@telefonica.net> <86k06y48ic.fsf@gmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="5527"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.91 (gnu/linux) Cc: =?utf-8?Q?=C3=93scar?= Fuentes , emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Tim Cross Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Wed Aug 24 06:27:49 2022 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1oQhzY-0001Ga-OG for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Wed, 24 Aug 2022 06:27:48 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:41212 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1oQhzX-0003zB-9n for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Wed, 24 Aug 2022 00:27:47 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:44262) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1oQhxn-0001sc-Ll for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 24 Aug 2022 00:26:03 -0400 Original-Received: from sonic316-22.consmr.mail.ne1.yahoo.com ([66.163.187.148]:45381) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1oQhxl-0003lC-Vl for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 24 Aug 2022 00:25:59 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoo.com; s=s2048; t=1661315154; bh=ThmHq4crPRldjqmDhiiEtIGS1SdtNHmxeStMDtjrk/E=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:References:Date:In-Reply-To:From:Subject:Reply-To; b=tZH5K5UrK+OL65QO+HzpNdD2PbSCFHXlnX3BGZCghWjSaaK1fbjZNZxOtt5uErLoZCQIA95r3y/HftPRgpyV76M7dWcXYvgPnJpLM9XdS4N/ut4Tg5cEquYWiP5bTeph4cbLrb7npgDjo61NkyxKiBhcVaPlMz69EK/E5iyV2N6BhumUjVklBFmoOR2Xm7Y17KgMJQ3q8NQ1usKGzXj6MmhrD8QX3QGnLVupq9nvRDNBglXuFQu74YP2/vN16kW/i3c1RFWTcrasYKSHbd69vDzRykiYBBc0M6BsgsTwk0OHwbT6MC8xbnbOynY+UvVb8xPlx3gzjD0S4yklv3E2yg== X-SONIC-DKIM-SIGN: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoo.com; s=s2048; t=1661315154; bh=/XJKlgFs9sJgQAx5tlyXdf7UKnstxsEDXJZWnNvhhLe=; h=X-Sonic-MF:From:To:Subject:Date:From:Subject; b=TXc1umpgvJVQCxmBnhNCCAU8YX+4M9vXkyO4sKSSit/9Hitfhj016dCld7LlPFIKLnxOUO//3Yc4A7MjKILiKECtlef1TDzlTZ+FRiTMjrY8Li6UYyQMOmumciJ9oxVsUvupvAtvlEfXBB3v7eGHnVqXI/Phtj47ETJ2sxTfO/+GuB/n8RQakzr3tBUlNUkg1bKs9Gam+T0WGFkSzEGeO31AIVZ2slL4aD7qqFXyxP11sBAnKzo8BfqOH79U8pbjO5MLLUW4nxNgovQbQYVbjEzPAosOA/EgtmTNDQ0ZZ9x0+9WqYhAFcWV5FCuZmxqrjOlvbLcWf/NaFujQp6mMwQ== X-YMail-OSG: n70J7zsVM1kCvEonxWLE.34FejQI3T72P9WxVE4hg.A.qG6Pj.zvbIUvlK66Twu qT0iTaz.UtkraQmwhpjPEsus7ca03ASFnuU4DSlSDzgVTCZ9JhfLBP9PQ2_wFbY_eY2PSNmx76cy CgCraWftLK9iXliLkVEayL63Wg1bIlERAiKKd87m_bUufBS2679k_X1KL56lURoNhVUP8UlUJ0ws GcVmL5U11wpj.oGcFlZ6NOzQi5YH_ci8DQ4aB_HD2_swdaR0estl2JAqkTqY0qcqRd4lH81dTkYl 0FLD.ysldZm6xPkQddAxi7wj48tmypsW8E_siIyLEFHEy3W8FcJ5ij_nIWlUU9iWBM_8e01.avsI 31cteNd7d8vPgTqnlbAWYb3bubFmoLZLv0BefZd0bVWGo2pM1dfQhVSvnpzRnGvYYOunHSBxAOrC NKtoZFlpR.esu6Cbch95n2mreIjbP_2f_RLmwtq9Q38TmO.cmH6_wSSWhK_IDxhLqA4V0TsU..zl FkZpcJl7oAK_6GhsHDDSjN.QrTunZOYtzi9_dFKJvpi7uZgmrMD33gAHma.pgMeUk8sI8C7DymMN tAoaDirfuzP7lCXALcZ.u6nGqM_3OGrT.pRhBE.I3QvzDCC4LtiQZcqCp_yB1enzgMRNXPbNoiOV KOtw_OMXhIl46KizCV.Kw1ZSeyutQ9SGdk_JeNDdSt1EJ4jq02_lIHSnxrvmj4BOEip1tlmx4Gpg Tz2E6SnxAmIccBRT2ymdJ0nOH244XBMamBmnetyWOY2gWchHKcwx5POoiDkO1NoyetjSIcPiaM8Q 0BCklHiUceK7uWoEOOlNz3fqB5a_Bfbmyukn.w73uS X-Sonic-MF: Original-Received: from sonic.gate.mail.ne1.yahoo.com by sonic316.consmr.mail.ne1.yahoo.com with HTTP; Wed, 24 Aug 2022 04:25:54 +0000 Original-Received: by hermes--canary-production-sg3-6f58cd9b5-79jxl (Yahoo Inc. Hermes SMTP Server) with ESMTPA ID 2127c78ec18a81c020041f1ca4e3c061; Wed, 24 Aug 2022 04:25:50 +0000 (UTC) In-Reply-To: <86k06y48ic.fsf@gmail.com> (Tim Cross's message of "Wed, 24 Aug 2022 09:25:07 +1000") X-Mailer: WebService/1.1.20560 mail.backend.jedi.jws.acl:role.jedi.acl.token.atz.jws.hermes.yahoo Received-SPF: pass client-ip=66.163.187.148; envelope-from=luangruo@yahoo.com; helo=sonic316-22.consmr.mail.ne1.yahoo.com X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:293950 Archived-At: Tim Cross writes: > Given that some fairly popular DE are still based on GTK2, I'm not > confident it will be removed any time soon. A lot of people have not > been happy with Gnome for some time now, which has resulted in other > desktop environments like mate, cinnamon etc. IIRC a number of these are > still based on GTK2. There are also a couple of reasonably popular > packages still based on GTK2 who are also unhappy with the direction GTK > took from v3 onwards and who have not updated to v3 support. Likely > distros will need to continue GTK2 support for longer than they or the > developers would prefer. Cinnamon has always been a GTK 3 desktop environment, and Mate is apparently now ported to GTK 3 (according to dnf repoquery.) > There does seem to be growing dissatisfaction with X in various > developer communities, especially Gnome and GTK. ^^^^^^^^^^ Only. It's called the "CADT model": www.jwz.org/doc/cadt.html. > Some of the criticisms do seem valid, some less so. I also get a sense > from posts in the x.org community of concerns regarding on-going > maintenance, code complexity and some legacy limitations which are > becoming increasingly more difficult to work around as hardware, > environments and user expectations evolve. The people putting forth those criticisms of X should come up with something concrete instead of catchy general phrases such as "code complexity" and "legacy limitations" that other people then throw around as evidence of problems with X.