From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Emanuel Berg Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: What does use-package do? Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2022 08:15:15 +0200 Message-ID: <871qreyjgs.fsf@dataswamp.org> References: <87czb253h3.fsf@gmail.com> <87sfjyqy8o.fsf@disroot.org> <87ilkt2mks.fsf@posteo.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="19294"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Cancel-Lock: sha1:DrP5wTa1yLqhWoOIYhXBziN6Wrw= Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Tue Oct 11 08:54:43 2022 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1oi9A1-0004mq-Ry for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Tue, 11 Oct 2022 08:54:41 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:51824 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1oi9A0-0003Ke-8v for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Tue, 11 Oct 2022 02:54:40 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:51942) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1oi8Y2-00058s-Vs for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 11 Oct 2022 02:15:38 -0400 Original-Received: from ciao.gmane.io ([116.202.254.214]:45206) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1oi8Y1-0006gU-8N for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 11 Oct 2022 02:15:26 -0400 Original-Received: from list by ciao.gmane.io with local (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1oi8Xy-00063L-AE for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 11 Oct 2022 08:15:22 +0200 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ Mail-Followup-To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Mail-Copies-To: never Received-SPF: pass client-ip=116.202.254.214; envelope-from=ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; helo=ciao.gmane.io X-Spam_score_int: -15 X-Spam_score: -1.6 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.6 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.25, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=no autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-Mailman-Approved-At: Tue, 11 Oct 2022 02:47:11 -0400 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:297427 Archived-At: John Wiegley wrote: >> Honestly, I don't like use-package because it has >> surprising behavior that often seems nosy.  That is why >> leaf was created, to organize/reduce the features that >> use-package has and to give user a better interface, which >> is why it cannot be integrated. > > You have mentioned this a few times, Naoya, but again I'll > say that use-package 2.0 completely reorganized its internal > structure so functions are fully modular and can be > added/changed/removed however you wish. I'm not sure what > you mean by "nosy" or "suprising" behavior, but if you > wanted you could revise how _all_ of the declarative > keywords behave. Everything is configurable these days, and > this is how the core functionality is implemented also. Indeed, nothing new ever needs to be created to reduce the features of something else. On the contrary, if anything, one should _add_ features! The interface on the other hand should be mad as easy as possible to configure even to non-programmers, and one can add a "style" or "suite" option to give them a head start ... -- underground experts united https://dataswamp.org/~incal