From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Philip Kaludercic Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: feature/package-vc has been merged Date: Wed, 09 Nov 2022 08:26:01 +0000 Message-ID: <871qqcfs9y.fsf@posteo.net> References: <164484721900.31751.1453162457552427931@vcs2.savannah.gnu.org> <878rkxgpms.fsf@posteo.net> <87sfiyk3a2.fsf_-_@posteo.net> <838rkp4ptj.fsf@gnu.org> <87zgd58i7y.fsf@posteo.net> <83k0492u5i.fsf@gnu.org> <87fsew8g18.fsf@posteo.net> <83mt941cyd.fsf@gnu.org> <87fsewp0ec.fsf@posteo.net> <837d0814c9.fsf@gnu.org> <878rkooz1o.fsf@posteo.net> <831qqg1306.fsf@gnu.org> <874jvcowzm.fsf@posteo.net> <83y1soypvx.fsf@gnu.org> <87y1song5x.fsf@posteo.net> <83v8nsyof7.fsf@gnu.org> <87leoond7l.fsf@posteo.net> <87mt90tyns.fsf@thaodan.de> <87o7tgfw4m.fsf@posteo.net> <87eductx0x.fsf@thaodan.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="20301"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: Eli Zaretskii , monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, rms@gnu.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: =?utf-8?Q?Bj=C3=B6rn?= Bidar Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Wed Nov 09 09:27:23 2022 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1osgQd-00055T-Fs for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Wed, 09 Nov 2022 09:27:23 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1osgPo-0004YU-TH; Wed, 09 Nov 2022 03:26:32 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1osgPe-0004Xy-0s for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 09 Nov 2022 03:26:23 -0500 Original-Received: from mout01.posteo.de ([185.67.36.65]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1osgPP-0002lc-I1 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 09 Nov 2022 03:26:20 -0500 Original-Received: from submission (posteo.de [185.67.36.169]) by mout01.posteo.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8CD89240026 for ; Wed, 9 Nov 2022 09:26:03 +0100 (CET) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=posteo.net; s=2017; t=1667982363; bh=ApPL5Oo+88lza9blnlHvg7l01KqB4lpQUTEqzhFLvD4=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:Date:From; b=kMFwkYwVgg7RNO7gLWnN7Os4zbO8IbTfSbZZ1m1T9h9uWvIy6rp4zXuWlisH0Hq4p 9wbnIWW+vv9FRZOtUsdIvevYCHezmGWJcPO0R4KnVIT9QY/Dhow0OT+RHXunvdopTA cBOr3gf/hiKimiotfuimwBeKVKdSb60sf8EP6E4Er+C3VRZl6nSrx1L3DurhMNZWBh kA6nNGe+2BZ/rNAnzwPUun+Eq4/v9kWjNRXDV79yTXzW4wh+5+YGDH3tSog6Q+M5ZM zUaIx38WB4RCOi8sz7Txkj/CgDd7cYbImeY7PGzXCC/RQXSWV/ehwvNqzKmo/IEGMh BswB84uUas6CA== Original-Received: from customer (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by submission (posteo.de) with ESMTPSA id 4N6dMt2qYRz9rxL; Wed, 9 Nov 2022 09:26:01 +0100 (CET) In-Reply-To: <87eductx0x.fsf@thaodan.de> (=?utf-8?Q?=22Bj=C3=B6rn?= Bidar"'s message of "Wed, 09 Nov 2022 09:19:42 +0200") Received-SPF: pass client-ip=185.67.36.65; envelope-from=philipk@posteo.net; helo=mout01.posteo.de X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:299390 Archived-At: Bj=C3=B6rn Bidar writes: > Philip Kaludercic writes: > >>> From my pov if you use the package directly from the version control >>> system you need to take these specialties into account. >>> Source isn't used as is but processed by the packages build-system. >>> But the user also needs to take not that all the necessary tools such as >>> make or ninja are installed. >> >> Right, this is currently not supported. Theoretically for security >> reasons, but security and packaging in Emacs have rarely been mutual >> considerations. Adding it wouldn't be difficult, but coming up with a >> sensible fallback strategy might be. > > Without such a system the package could be without use in many cases. Many is probably the word of contention here. If you take a look at elpa.git:elpa-packages, you'll find only a few :make or :shell-command directives, none of which are critical. nongnu.git:elpa-packages has non at all. One thing I worry about, but which has also been discussed here are :renames. E.g. Vertico uses these to move extensions from a subdirectory to the main directory for packaging. But moving the files would be registered by the VCS, and could make committing changes more difficult. Maybe we could create symbolic/hard links instead of renaming? > I noticed recently that some external packages such as projectile where > copied but not to the extend or why that they are useful. I am afraid I don't understand the issue you are describing. Could you be more concrete? > For example Borg only works because of magit, epkg is almost useles > without Borg. Just to clarify, I have never used Borg, straight, elpacaa, etc. so I don't know how they work, how they are used or what terminology they use. I have peeked into their source code in the past, but none of that was related to the development of package-vc. > If the packages complete use case isn't meat it should at least get all > the features that it is useful without applying hacks so it can be used > in the next Emacs version. > I understand that you try to get it closer however that would then only > affect anything after Emacs 29. What hacks are you referring to? Is there a specific use-case you think must be added for package-vc to be satisfactory? > Br, > > Bj=C3=B6rn