From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: =?utf-8?Q?Bj=C3=B6rn?= Bidar Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: feature/package-vc has been merged Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2022 01:33:24 +0200 Message-ID: <871qqbk8jf.fsf@thaodan.de> References: <164484721900.31751.1453162457552427931@vcs2.savannah.gnu.org> <83k0492u5i.fsf@gnu.org> <87fsew8g18.fsf@posteo.net> <83mt941cyd.fsf@gnu.org> <87fsewp0ec.fsf@posteo.net> <837d0814c9.fsf@gnu.org> <878rkooz1o.fsf@posteo.net> <831qqg1306.fsf@gnu.org> <874jvcowzm.fsf@posteo.net> <83y1soypvx.fsf@gnu.org> <87y1song5x.fsf@posteo.net> <83v8nsyof7.fsf@gnu.org> <87leoond7l.fsf@posteo.net> <87mt90tyns.fsf@thaodan.de> <87o7tgfw4m.fsf@posteo.net> <87eductx0x.fsf@thaodan.de> <871qqcfs9y.fsf@posteo.net> <875yfotn63.fsf@thaodan.de> <87r0yc9g4u.fsf@posteo.net> <87tu37sxky.fsf@thaodan.de> <87h6z797rf.fsf@posteo.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="20417"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Cc: Eli Zaretskii , monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, rms@gnu.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Philip Kaludercic Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Thu Nov 10 07:31:28 2022 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1ot15y-00054R-Gw for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Thu, 10 Nov 2022 07:31:26 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1ot10l-0002Re-8v; Thu, 10 Nov 2022 01:26:05 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1osuZl-0007KG-BW for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 09 Nov 2022 18:33:45 -0500 Original-Received: from thaodan.de ([2a03:4000:4f:f15::1]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1osuZh-0003KX-3c; Wed, 09 Nov 2022 18:33:44 -0500 Original-Received: from odin (dsl-trebng12-b04885-76.dhcp.inet.fi [176.72.133.76]) by thaodan.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id AD767D08D5C; Thu, 10 Nov 2022 01:33:24 +0200 (EET) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=thaodan.de; s=mail; t=1668036813; bh=huhd63tOTzTONiOSuy6h7wEhyA0N1ZT8rxyNpw1eouw=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:Date; b=YlJltAFBaOu8CYXGI+6LClFAOre5da69elhgGcNHx5CeEQZeiR+j1tGdEHxSkg6+5 5phq9lQxXcBzFtLnZifVw2THYb+tC1M3nfSAM2wRuaWiCH1K0NKNvjyeeWxOvrhwFL ph//JpL/1/kO4+mK9xE0FW2TTrv0QsImFx6KwR9Ck8PdinkjhQ8opuObBjgN0OENdV kQ/Ze6yDhSX9EK9awr7DQSBXrxs1KlIwCdWn5jDO5og1rEQX6z9F86e69AgwOyEUVk oQUJRAo90bN3HeEuh28IWDN2rcmR6xxfnybDNENN85n9Hi8m40bHpcxRivk/Bgc+9B LlGDLAqvCEM/EN+pOSS6TTBqaoTL/DRabIUqHCAGXNhX7cXQw2yDtME89/LcJbiIkt 5wspCgz5/gIsDW9TSILZs8oBHYsss81rd0iDlFwnn2lR082xA6XiXqdr7RnU6JIcU6 1eQ9eMyPjwPpEeb8CER50T2KcktW/8xx4A2GbjymJRYAcPv0as3jiXDN3B7/vr/KUB Wtq7wsDBAJq9Lld/B1u39TA8HeV2BNk2qsCOVZNmSlCairF3hC18MBLC/JXZTS2I4s V5FdxUM9cZI2rd2uQXPO2b4U5fRV8ofYNLwxjQdRQOy4u2ISai6X857FIHsBaE3pT6 2BS8rwaiViHDaLqsYl21UOPE= In-Reply-To: <87h6z797rf.fsf@posteo.net> (Philip Kaludercic's message of "Wed, 09 Nov 2022 20:45:40 +0000") Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2a03:4000:4f:f15::1; envelope-from=bjorn.bidar@thaodan.de; helo=thaodan.de X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-Mailman-Approved-At: Thu, 10 Nov 2022 01:25:52 -0500 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:299458 Archived-At: Philip Kaludercic writes: > Bj=C3=B6rn Bidar writes: > >>>>>> For example Borg only works because of magit, epkg is almost useles >>>>>> without Borg. >>>>> >>>>> Just to clarify, I have never used Borg, straight, elpacaa, etc. so I >>>>> don't know how they work, how they are used or what terminology they >>>>> use. I have peeked into their source code in the past, but none of t= hat >>>>> was related to the development of package-vc. >>>> >>>> That's to bad I think it very helpful to improve on such packages or >>>> even just adapt them instead of reinventing them. >>> >>> The point of package-vc.el is to have something that explicitly extends >>> package.el and works in the core, in active collaboration with ELPA. >>> That is why the implementation is far simpler than what others have to >>> do, because they are fighting an up hill battle outside of the core. >> >> There might be reasons for that.. >> Quite often the core packages aren't as good or just to >> complicated/convoluted with legacy features. > > My experience has been quite the opposite -- I wouldn't be a > more-or-less-regular contributor if that weren't my impression. Core > packages are usually developed by people with a good sense of what makes > Emacs "Emacs". That seems to be really subjective a lot people use Emacs but wouldn't without Melpa and co. Core packages often lack a lot of modern features. But a lack of features can be a feature too thou. > Most of the time the complexity you speak of has an explanation, even if > that explanation is only due to the responsibilities of having a package > in core. > >> Or in case of borg compared to package-vc deeper integration into git or >> other different features like building packages in a second instance >> with just borg and the package. > > Right, that is an advantage that Borg has by /committing/ to Git, > instead of going through VC and avoiding a strict dependency on one > specific VCS. Which makes it by design less reproduceable unless it vc keeps track of all the version control information like last ref of that package and its source. But I assume that's what's done here. Something like make bootstrap could be very useful e.g. to use your configuration on another machine, so that emacs can start after all packages needed in init.el are present. https://emacsmirror.net/manual/borg/Using-your-configuration-on-another-mac= hine.html Br, Bj=C3=B6rn