From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Philip Kaludercic Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Adding use-package to core Date: Sat, 19 Nov 2022 10:09:37 +0000 Message-ID: <871qpz5k7y.fsf@posteo.net> References: <87fsemjs7v.fsf@yahoo.com> <87wn7skqne.fsf@melete.silentflame.com> <83h6yw9hhf.fsf@gnu.org> <87h6ywgfii.fsf@posteo.net> <83edtza04u.fsf@gnu.org> <875yfb5rg5.fsf@posteo.net> <834juv9xpm.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="32966"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: spwhitton@spwhitton.name, luangruo@yahoo.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org, xenodasein@tutanota.de To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sat Nov 19 11:10:26 2022 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1owKnq-0008Pk-IZ for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sat, 19 Nov 2022 11:10:26 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1owKnD-00048o-Eq; Sat, 19 Nov 2022 05:09:47 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1owKnA-00048K-5X for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 19 Nov 2022 05:09:44 -0500 Original-Received: from mout01.posteo.de ([185.67.36.65]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1owKn8-00080i-29 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 19 Nov 2022 05:09:43 -0500 Original-Received: from submission (posteo.de [185.67.36.169]) by mout01.posteo.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3ED2D240028 for ; Sat, 19 Nov 2022 11:09:40 +0100 (CET) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=posteo.net; s=2017; t=1668852580; bh=SB9BvCEwvT8kOL3wkYWQEDRelJfR/TPhp0fwG/PLd1Q=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:Date:From; b=IvMya7CH+92dNrVp9hL7SfaKYVT98FRQHouNixobp+6CYBs4yoG+AvIkKSc6RLuij cQs2E793VPD0szDUxTJVzoY5VVMhRkuADc/ExH9fWDzOY7RV+Bzvnl3lyfI5Bgsu91 BmcsexYr8FfFNvYu6LpCP8D7rEm8feVnqx4fpJMcHwoOtRluZjIcvEhCED9W3wmTzH KoaRBCETz6tQYOd1dTF1aMkmnPw9DcjCmRefPQHlcvilHbZ2Ns93lhm+LRQpGzgaGk 9PBR8mJ7SL7ajNKqzODD1tAGntj91oVKwWn1ChzLtNavt1ej0JtL+SrfdR2H1t/BEs FGU/Rp9T61+MA== Original-Received: from customer (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by submission (posteo.de) with ESMTPSA id 4NDqBm5p3bz9rxF; Sat, 19 Nov 2022 11:09:36 +0100 (CET) In-Reply-To: <834juv9xpm.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Sat, 19 Nov 2022 10:04:37 +0200") Received-SPF: pass client-ip=185.67.36.65; envelope-from=philipk@posteo.net; helo=mout01.posteo.de X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:300146 Archived-At: Eli Zaretskii writes: >> From: Philip Kaludercic >> Cc: spwhitton@spwhitton.name, luangruo@yahoo.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org, >> xenodasein@tutanota.de >> Date: Sat, 19 Nov 2022 07:33:30 +0000 >> >> Eli Zaretskii writes: >> >> >> What would the criteria for inclusion be like? >> > >> > Packages that we'd like to have in Emacs, but for some reason are on >> > ELPA instead. This would allow packages like Magit, Org, project.el, >> > and maybe others to stay only on ELPA. >> >> 1. project.el and Org is already included, even developed in Emacs? > > The intent was to leave them only on ELPA when the way of including > ELPA packages in a release is figured out. (And Org is definitely NOT > developed in Emacs.) Of course. >> 2. Are we talking about GNU ELPA or both NonGNU ELPA and GNU ELPA. > > GNU ELPA only. OK, but then again, what to do about Magit being on NonGNU ELPA. >> Perhaps we can take a look at the results of the Emacs Survey, when that >> comes out later this month and collect a list of popular contenders? > > We could do that, but until we have a reliable way of including ELPA > packages in a release (which should include the solution for how to > upgrade such packages after the released Emacs is installed on the > user's machine), doing these secondary jobs is IMO just a waste of > time and energy. For example, if the solutions are far away in the > future, the list of contenders you collect now will be outdated by > then, and will need to be redone anew. > > The issues we are touching here were all discussed in the past, and > the difficulties that need to be resolved were described and also > discussed. It's nothing new, and I don't think anything's changed > since those discussions, we are still where we were back then wrt our > ability to include ELPA packages. What exactly is the complication here? Wouldn't it be possible to have a "contrib"/"elpa"/... directory under lisp with ELPA packages that are prepared before packaging? Or should these packages be moved into the core? Would using fancy tricks like git worktrees, as done by elpa-admin be a possible approach to tackle the issue?