From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Emanuel Berg Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Lisp files that load cl-lib in problematical ways Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2023 13:32:43 +0200 Message-ID: <871qdhk49w.fsf@dataswamp.org> References: <83ttqnm4ti.fsf@gnu.org> <831qdlpoye.fsf@gnu.org> <83sf5xhnym.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="14879"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Cancel-Lock: sha1:w6YJykA22ZxnoZNBzCXA18/pwUU= Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Thu Oct 26 14:01:17 2023 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1qvz37-0003hG-1W for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Thu, 26 Oct 2023 14:01:17 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qvz1x-0006UT-Gc; Thu, 26 Oct 2023 08:00:05 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qvybq-0004DS-Gt for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 26 Oct 2023 07:33:06 -0400 Original-Received: from ciao.gmane.io ([116.202.254.214]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qvybo-0004dm-KD for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 26 Oct 2023 07:33:06 -0400 Original-Received: from list by ciao.gmane.io with local (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1qvybh-0007gk-TX for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 26 Oct 2023 13:32:57 +0200 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ Mail-Followup-To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Mail-Copies-To: never Received-SPF: pass client-ip=116.202.254.214; envelope-from=ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; helo=ciao.gmane.io X-Spam_score_int: -15 X-Spam_score: -1.6 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.6 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.25, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=no autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-Mailman-Approved-At: Thu, 26 Oct 2023 08:00:03 -0400 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:311906 Archived-At: Alan Mackenzie wrote: > How many contributors are actually familiar with the bulk of > cl-lib? I suspect, very few indeed. Maybe Stefan M. > The people who have written strongly in favour of cl-lib > over the last week or two have not been those who spend lots > of time maintaining others' code. > > I further suspect that many contributions using cl-lib are > from people who know a small part of cl-lib, find the > functionality intriguing, and thus use it. The trouble is, > each such contributor knows a different part of it, so in > aggregate the part that an Emacs maintainer needs to know > (or continually to look up) is large. It is the nature of innovation. People like to be at the front. They like to try out exotic new gear. And the people at the rear understand this - even if it means they have to build new facilities to accomodate for the new stuff once in a while. If we tell people at the front to stick with the old ways, the old gear, they will simply leave our section for something more interesting to do. And we won't get anywhere. > Note that Common Lisp never took off as a popular language. > There must be reasons for this. Maintaining it is too difficult? -- underground experts united https://dataswamp.org/~incal