From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Suhail Singh Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Improve access to documentation in Info format Date: Fri, 03 Jan 2025 00:27:41 -0500 Message-ID: <871pxk8o1e.fsf@gmail.com> References: <87ser8c230.fsf@jeremybryant.net> <86ser87rut.fsf@gnu.org> <871pygyjqt.fsf_-_@gmail.com> <87zfl2mhoz.fsf@gmail.com> <878qruqm8w.fsf@gmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="22632"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Cc: Suhail Singh , emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Richard Stallman Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Fri Jan 03 07:33:38 2025 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1tTbFZ-0005jB-VQ for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Fri, 03 Jan 2025 07:33:37 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1tTbEn-0007YD-F5; Fri, 03 Jan 2025 01:32:49 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1tTaE1-0000bV-IL for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 03 Jan 2025 00:27:57 -0500 Original-Received: from mail-qk1-x742.google.com ([2607:f8b0:4864:20::742]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1tTaE0-0001m1-17; Fri, 03 Jan 2025 00:27:57 -0500 Original-Received: by mail-qk1-x742.google.com with SMTP id af79cd13be357-7b6f0afda3fso1192588585a.2; Thu, 02 Jan 2025 21:27:55 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1735882073; x=1736486873; darn=gnu.org; h=mime-version:user-agent:message-id:date:references:in-reply-to :subject:cc:to:from:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=22csByBfvbXN/UQURo9ecriBQO7KOKkxg9p1bnGeVvA=; b=Be7a1obEiHLOtGCUbhurEeH+RY8MXeIlbzSPjojGpBYIkZTZLABldeOxFhByHM8dke dfr569+1i6pBXYw1FbXfdoWodBhnwGnmUeQ70JgXv9zKahVunw2MANGOOMPmLf5Hobd4 EbEiWOkpT+0eAsMIfPN4V3OE+rkxROxIhkqXXOeV6gm1nWBZio0qkZBGwrgkkFouVFrv 0xcW5PlKc7hOXB79a2a/59xfqxPDaoU09JlnkmRqoQlwEnsTU+VFNcANtIyiI9d7bS6R klyKUkxGeK1h7+PZP7QxUvh/ZrP/qtH8+/NOa5pUKU1TLLIVwZJaLD0t69MuxdRCQlgu /LQA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1735882073; x=1736486873; h=mime-version:user-agent:message-id:date:references:in-reply-to :subject:cc:to:from:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date :message-id:reply-to; bh=22csByBfvbXN/UQURo9ecriBQO7KOKkxg9p1bnGeVvA=; b=V+kIPHvrfB0LY3T3JkKj2vF5ftBJSa9pacltPCuuVnnOYQ8pasmkXCuYmAjiY1oDdB vfdIhC4bjUhOjrVBJMZzazbTwV9USbsqCGhDcvFgyuOSrNBCNkKlrffN9fHtlB5nh0Sq IHPjmL0Wrz0GUXk2nJ+ZiYq2/Y2+FkiTLCwj5YwcFHwikY68lLhTG5cXJaNgulPGrzEA g+9MuzSiaCgQHseCAaiVqyL8T+fV54P0FNtZnw6/seqLG1SVdio2HaUKakc2DYAFwXK7 BA/3v6P6hJgJLs44SZkZcC5M5K4Hy9ETDoE+ch2377RRfOBvxHDVkEToysDXUoU1h/2G h4GA== X-Forwarded-Encrypted: i=1; AJvYcCWqswpHzohaC9dexE4tGev2bZ9V9SyKRQdl23Usp2uA8cZxIelkAyBbti9Kaxcm3jHbqiTVqni5/mwN8A==@gnu.org X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0Yx6KOWvc1NkZjxSNf7sR+imzXgK9NFJ8pfEdXSz35SaleTzx20i 8PnueNimb+kK/7tl+jEmL6GZU0MYMYa4GjXOsFXsaEHkka6HqelO5Fa6gpBS X-Gm-Gg: ASbGncul8pZ9DcqmmCLIf4rZY/FYqRaQc+fpp6yWYBgO0VkEh/f2Jns2yh09RmE9JUH xhifrL4qPvYZQlHErkIWykFci0IC8CfoEnu8cBRDH/3qm02Nc2fc+b3AkETEUGvA8z3Wyc6f2Vl UjQ+KaM1WKcBJ/MHEAnk+eftsTlrZBBh8wEb8jpJzkPIkxLt5FxNa7DezBdm9SaJCeb8fEjFZjk 3DftLbOQhfo+5k0JKvtLWEEhLb0K91RcInuN6ohiZx6JiTRFez5 X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IG06r403oFu4ToqANf3p890jhSs3JdAalPH+DS3ReZpNQqMoUIQY8gPD1bm2zejm5hE9/vHfQ== X-Received: by 2002:a05:6214:4281:b0:6dc:d101:2bb2 with SMTP id 6a1803df08f44-6dd230e17efmr847160876d6.0.1735882073619; Thu, 02 Jan 2025 21:27:53 -0800 (PST) Original-Received: from gnus ([70.26.179.129]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id d75a77b69052e-46a3eb2b550sm142245071cf.81.2025.01.02.21.27.52 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Thu, 02 Jan 2025 21:27:53 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: (Richard Stallman's message of "Thu, 02 Jan 2025 23:32:11 -0500") Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2607:f8b0:4864:20::742; envelope-from=suhailsingh247@gmail.com; helo=mail-qk1-x742.google.com X-Spam_score_int: -17 X-Spam_score: -1.8 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.8 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_ENVFROM_END_DIGIT=0.25, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-Mailman-Approved-At: Fri, 03 Jan 2025 01:32:46 -0500 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:327608 Archived-At: Richard Stallman writes: > > Agreed, natural markup may not be a substitute for Texinfo. And yet, > > there may still be utility in providing _best effort_ but "visibly > > wrong" Info manuals for packages that use other documentation generation > > systems (for instance, Sphinx). > > I agree -- and isn't this what they do now? It depends on who you mean by "they". If by "they" you mean packagers, then no that is not what generally happens. If by "they" you mean users who are interested in perusing documentation in Info format, then they _could_ do so, but that misses the "value" I was alluding to - which was about making something which is possible today, convenient (as opposed to making something that's not possible today, possible). However, going back to our exchange from a few responses before, if we make progress on [1] then the above (access to Info manuals generated by translating-from-other-formats) would also improve over time. [1]: Providing an "easy" way for users to see available info manuals and install them. You suggested: > The way I see is involves two steps: > > a, Set up some sort of download repo with all the Info manuals. A candidate for this could be an ELPA repository (say, NonGNU ELPA). Alternatively, this could be the main Guix channel (or another Guix channel). Of these the easiest (from an Emacs user's perspective) would be an ELPA repository. Note that having these be collected in an ELPA archive wouldn't preclude them also being packaged in Guix (as happens today with various Emacs packages available on various ELPA repositories). Packages from NonGNU ELPA are easily available for users to install in recent versions of Emacs. Further, since NonGNU ELPA doesn't seek copyright assignment from packages, it is more suited to the goal at hand. Are there reasons why NonGNU ELPA wouldn't be a good place to host such Info manuals? > b. Write software to find the desired manual, fetch it, and install it > on your computer. If the Info manuals were hosted on NonGNU ELPA, then package.el already provides this. > Would people like tp vplunteer to work on this? To this end, would it be sufficient if people volunteered packages (that provide Info manuals) to NonGNU ELPA? -- Suhail