From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: main.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Danilo Segan Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Suggestion: Mapping of M-g should be goto-line Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 13:30:18 +0100 Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+emacs-devel=quimby.gnus.org@gnu.org Message-ID: <86zna5cdnp.fsf@avet.kvota.net> References: <86brmldvbd.fsf@avet.kvota.net> <20040325123800.4ADA.JMBARRANQUERO@wke.es> NNTP-Posting-Host: deer.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1080222249 16572 80.91.224.253 (25 Mar 2004 13:44:09 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 13:44:09 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+emacs-devel=quimby.gnus.org@gnu.org Thu Mar 25 14:43:54 2004 Return-path: Original-Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([80.91.224.244]) by deer.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1B6V9F-0001h7-00 for ; Thu, 25 Mar 2004 14:43:53 +0100 Original-Received: from monty-python.gnu.org ([199.232.76.173]) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1B6V9F-0005Wa-00 for ; Thu, 25 Mar 2004 14:43:53 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.30) id 1B6UIY-00009f-3j for emacs-devel@quimby.gnus.org; Thu, 25 Mar 2004 07:49:26 -0500 Original-Received: from list by monty-python.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.30) id 1B6U6l-0007Gg-33 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 25 Mar 2004 07:37:15 -0500 Original-Received: from mail by monty-python.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.30) id 1B6Twf-0005y0-0L for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 25 Mar 2004 07:27:21 -0500 Original-Received: from [217.65.193.23] (helo=avet.kvota.net) by monty-python.gnu.org with smtp (Exim 4.30) id 1B6TwN-0005ur-2G for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 25 Mar 2004 07:26:32 -0500 Original-Received: (qmail 32127 invoked by uid 1001); 25 Mar 2004 12:30:18 -0000 Original-To: Juanma Barranquero Mail-Followup-To: Juanma Barranquero , emacs-devel@gnu.org In-Reply-To: <20040325123800.4ADA.JMBARRANQUERO@wke.es> (Juanma Barranquero's message of "Thu, 25 Mar 2004 12:55:03 +0100") User-Agent: Gnus/5.1002 (Gnus v5.10.2) Emacs/21.3.50 (gnu/linux) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.4 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+emacs-devel=quimby.gnus.org@gnu.org Xref: main.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:20895 X-Report-Spam: http://spam.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.devel:20895 Hi Juanma, Today at 12:55, Juanma Barranquero wrote: > On Thu, 25 Mar 2004 12:23:34 +0100 > Danilo Segan wrote: > >> That's only a reason to educate them better, not to adjust behaviour. > > Many people don't have the time to be "educated". I've introduced a few > friends to Emacs and they're using it happily, but they just won't spend > the time to learn features they feel they're not going to need. Sorry if I sounded too harsh -- I just want the defaults to be good, and I'm not at all claiming to know what they should be. I'm bringing issues and/or solutions to issues brought up in discussion, which are more "Emacs-ey" than simply using goto-line by hand. With that aside, your claim seems to be spurious at best: you've got friends who "just won't spend the time to learn features they feel they're not going to need" -- if they're not going to need them, why would they care if goto-line is easily accessible, or not? OTOH, if they're going to need them, we should make them learn next-error, not goto-line (at least IMHO, it's related to the issue of what is officially supported/recommended way of doing things with Emacs). >> I suggest you try "emacsclient -n +5 path/to/file" > > I don't use emacsclient, but I *do* use gnuclient.exe and gnuserv.el > (I'm on Windows), which have the same functionality. Still, I routinely > use M-x goto-line. Thanks for mentioning that. But two of us, _who_ do know of alternate [that's important, since it may be the case that many people don't know about them], and (arguably) better way to open a file at specific point from terminal, are far from a good statistical sample (and even our views differ). >> For those that are not willing to go the "better" path (of course, >> if it becomes a consensus that this is actually "better", I'm not >> insisting this is), they can always customize their keybindings.=20 > > Yes, that's what I've done, so I certainly won't insist on M-g being > goto-line. Still, making goto-line more accesible that "set default font" > seems sensible for all these "uneducated" people out there which don't > want to spend too much time learning Emacs, i.e., the exact people to > whom the customize stuff is addressed... I'd actually go the different route. I'd suggest making next-error even more accessible (eg. using M-g for that), since it's infinitely more useful than setting default face. With that done, one might even put goto-line to C-x `, or something. Lets not knowingly hide very useful features such as next-error, and expose goto-line instead. (If you want a shortcut to make some sense, it's easy: "error" in Serbian is "gre=C5=A1ka" [so M-g], and you can easily remember it, right? ;) > In fact, I routinely have Emacs running all the time and have an alias > "em=3Dgnuclient -qF" so I can edit files with "em filename.ext". gnuclient > is also my editor-cmd in Subversion, so Emacs comes forward to edit > Subversion commit logs, etc. etc. > > Really, I *do* know there are alternatives. I use some of them, and the > ones I don't use, is because they're not that useful/comfortable to me. (I'd rather put the emphasis on "I": "*I* do know there are alternatives", since I'd like to point out that many others who reach for goto-line probably don't) The last time I used Windows, I found its terminal to be very unusable. So, I would tend to blame incomfortability on that instead. :) > I refuse to be "educated" to do things in ways I've already discarded ;) For those who're already long-time users of Emacs (like probably yourself), there's no point in "educating" -- you know how to set it up to suit your preferences, and have probably developed your own set of preferences over time, which differ from defaults.=20 Cheers, Danilo