From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: [External] : Emacs website, Lisp, and other Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2024 10:10:35 +0300 Message-ID: <86zfpe6z2s.fsf@gnu.org> References: <87sevj9b50.fsf@jeremybryant.net> <86h6bzqj2v.fsf@gnu.org> <87ed718o45.fsf@jeremybryant.net> <87le186g3f.fsf@dataswamp.org> <87bk1ub98z.fsf@dataswamp.org> Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="17450"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Emanuel Berg Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Thu Aug 15 09:11:30 2024 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1seUdu-0004Ph-ST for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Thu, 15 Aug 2024 09:11:30 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1seUdI-0007Tk-79; Thu, 15 Aug 2024 03:10:53 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1seUdG-0007TU-EA for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 15 Aug 2024 03:10:50 -0400 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1seUdE-0001in-Ic; Thu, 15 Aug 2024 03:10:48 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=5V+TO38QBqyzuG5PIU6YjePZXbOLRjKfS+Jg7rRryTI=; b=RK0MyM4b9SbU YCUV7Mz+q2nW2o0gDteqBPuczDqurxBEmez+IyL8KQ2lxBjNaenWAKZ5bRhtVGNbvTEdHUI26ihiz /5kw6vzLWjOLQBHxmbwC8XAY4ebsCFrGLFkIDN94bGroCYfGtEZwpYaBss8uOXIWHmfJVBvRD+MbN ott2wWh3D0EkJa5apMm27x0LyIhQNvCDGH8ytcysL6G9ZD/8EQE0dcOjtLMgKszSIjSprhk5Y9Q1b cvY+rRPECCAgtOI3mT4399kbRteXyvU/aA1dzTV0vhOYoXPI2JgAz+eJpDvfYGjiJpEBBc9xncmy1 Un60TVi8zZGXxtVlwkGU9Q==; In-Reply-To: <87bk1ub98z.fsf@dataswamp.org> (message from Emanuel Berg on Thu, 15 Aug 2024 08:17:16 +0200) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:322769 Archived-At: > From: Emanuel Berg > Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2024 08:17:16 +0200 > > If you do this on the source: > > awk '/\(defun /{print $2}' **/*.el | sort -u | wc -l > > you get: 45 865 > > This is beyond me. How can we, in 2024, with Emacs development > going on for 39 years, 4 months and 26 days, so far resulting > in the writing of possibly _forty-five thousand_ Elisp > functions - this is excluding ELPA, MELPA, and local code - > how can we ask for basic math functions, functions that give > you every word or sentence in a paragraph, and so on? We have everything that we need (and if we need more, we add after examining and analyzing the needs). Emacs is not an exercise in providing set of APIs that satisfies some academical notion of "completeness", especially not when what's "complete" is judged from a POV that has very little to do with the actual design and purpose of Emacs (as opposed to some GP programing language or library). IOW, if an API is not in the set, it is rarely if ever needed in Emacs. If you claim that a function to give you every word in a sentence or a paragraph is needed, you need to justify that by describing the relevant real-life use cases that make sense for Emacs jobs. > Well, one thing is sure, if it really is that bad, let's not > blame Lisp. Indeed. In fact, there's no "blame" here at all, IMNSHO.