From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Question regarding tty special glyphs display defaults Date: Wed, 09 Oct 2024 17:08:51 +0300 Message-ID: <86zfnd2wss.fsf@gnu.org> References: <86ed4p4fa6.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="30330"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Gerd =?utf-8?Q?M=C3=B6llmann?= Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Wed Oct 09 16:09:47 2024 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1syXNq-0007jb-S0 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Wed, 09 Oct 2024 16:09:46 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1syXN2-0003OW-J1; Wed, 09 Oct 2024 10:08:56 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1syXN0-0003OK-L3 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 09 Oct 2024 10:08:54 -0400 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1syXN0-0007fY-A2; Wed, 09 Oct 2024 10:08:54 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=MIME-version:References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From: Date; bh=/hWcfFHEcsgO0X0V33oYwEMo1KZ0feVWx3Xfyi96H1k=; b=LIw8YsYsnmYJ0G26Uu9U lZOgqBlQYdSktS+gCQmGKzvEk0Um2o2rPDmMXIcg1B7J2lZ38DWrT+6w6z80O8W/YtKclmCTs+KpS 1cQIP5E7OpIacpeaHl7xdtcejfeggkH89UFCzyOFBeosGvTN2Tnni385r5qvHA5STy3h42oBcPTFs lueqZM701I8d2Zu49yt63NYWKT+zRq8dEvEI2dB59Q86JK7tVT4H1z179CWuDHlam1EWvc+bEsNwH VuXHSCVTo+TpOQEYh5uaMUPQFiXnYGeAAGq5h9ADNaw+twNus1mUPX4STd4O43mvZFU1mStJ0pIAc PXsMmMCYLbzHuA==; In-Reply-To: (message from Gerd =?utf-8?Q?M?= =?utf-8?Q?=C3=B6llmann?= on Wed, 09 Oct 2024 15:48:58 +0200) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:324442 Archived-At: > From: Gerd Möllmann > Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org > Date: Wed, 09 Oct 2024 15:48:58 +0200 > > Eli Zaretskii writes: > > > Using Unicode (or non-ASCII in general) on text terminals is > > problematic, because we need to establish whether a character is > > supported before using it, and text terminals differ wildly in that > > aspect. We have char-displayable-p, but it is not 100% reliable > > (except if you are on the Linux console, for which we have special > > support), so using this by default is not reliable, either. > > Ah thanks, that's what I was looking for and couldn't find. > > > Why cannot this be left to user customizations, leaving the ("ugly as > > hell") ASCII characters as the default, since those are reliably > > displayed? > > I'm just wondering if one could do better. I think the Unicode box > drawing characters like U+2502 '│' instead of '|' for example are quite > commonly used in terminal programs. I'm guessing you have terminal emulators in mind. Those indeed use GUI fonts, where these characters are usually available. But I was talking about real console devices, where that is not necessarily true. We don't default to U+2502 '│' in fill-column-indicator-mode for that reason. > And they produce a much nicer display. On my system I sometimes have > to take a second look to see if I have a GUI version in front of me > or not (it's the modeline that is slightly different). > > Hm, don't know, if you don't want that, it's of course okay. I have my > setup already as I like it. I'm saying that doing that by default would be problematic. We can provide a defcustom or a minor mode which would replace these characters, and let users who know their terminals can display those use those opt-in features.