From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: yank-media: allow users to limit image types that can be inserted Date: Thu, 31 Oct 2024 11:56:31 +0200 Message-ID: <86ttcs38a8.fsf@gnu.org> References: <79fc91f3-c2c3-44db-9817-595808917f26@cas.cat> <87zfnywki8.fsf@gmail.com> <86setqfnmq.fsf@gnu.org> <87frpqflv4.fsf@gmail.com> <86ikumfjri.fsf@gnu.org> <877cb2fj0c.fsf@gmail.com> <86cykufhw7.fsf@gnu.org> <3a015d0f-549a-401f-be1c-651c9dbd5d9a@cas.cat> <8634lqfcaf.fsf@gnu.org> <87ikulwsd6.fsf@gmail.com> <86o74ddzxp.fsf@gnu.org> <87msiqvkph.fsf@localhost> <86ed42bs03.fsf@gnu.org> <874j4yot7x.fsf@localhost> <861q01c3h9.fsf@gnu.org> <87wmht3n17.fsf@gmail.com> <86v7xdamck.fsf@gnu.org> <87sesh37ya.fsf@gmail.com> <86iktd8o9h.fsf@gnu.org> <87iktb171d.fsf@gmail.com> <861pzw4r3j.fsf@gnu.org> <87v7x8y81c.fsf@gmail.com> Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="31540"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: yantar92@posteo.net, pinmacs@cas.cat, rpluim@gmail.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Visuwesh Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Thu Oct 31 10:57:19 2024 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1t6Rva-0007z3-52 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Thu, 31 Oct 2024 10:57:18 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1t6Rut-0005ny-F2; Thu, 31 Oct 2024 05:56:35 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1t6Rus-0005nq-OM for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 31 Oct 2024 05:56:34 -0400 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1t6Rur-0002dI-SF; Thu, 31 Oct 2024 05:56:33 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=vu5yDSYv/I9pclH88KJd9LGfYhtuTtY2V554jItvz+A=; b=hN1/fGCxZqcJ tQMUjbtokJe/hHT4KEbY6pHl5+fW1Sj2S0Nm6hKUt2598x8kxDPX64oaAqeXrBNH0haUU/QI+x+sY CJ+YS+kN+RIRFyg3c0BYMNliHC8uMSp1FcD4vOaF/ZAxhTc90an2f79FqeFDWnBx0rFwB7D7eAAWa qHRRHbNPIGh2IxAerkDzj1ewDrVPfJy0kYyLCMqvYeaqhBst1sEru5sZp67CeH/WovOpXOfaM4l0P Lf+39KL2+FiQA2kLX5vA3kQcb6IZRhWxF6yqi4wVqGxXNq2QFWuClffBsnqjFV6QJPJgGIQ7mU/+j hkV4CoNpzLvMY7ECGnxizA==; In-Reply-To: <87v7x8y81c.fsf@gmail.com> (message from Visuwesh on Thu, 31 Oct 2024 14:16:07 +0530) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:324961 Archived-At: > From: Visuwesh > Cc: yantar92@posteo.net, pinmacs@cas.cat, rpluim@gmail.com, > emacs-devel@gnu.org > Date: Thu, 31 Oct 2024 14:16:07 +0530 > > > This (and the patch you suggest) completes the full circle of this > > discussion: it started when I said that such a global preference makes > > very little sense to me, based on my experience with yanking different > > data types in other applications. Users have no reason for such > > preferences, as they almost never have enough reasons to prefer one > > type over the others _globally_. The preference only makes sense in > > each specific case, and then asking the user to choose is exactly TRT, > > which we already do. > > At least for images, I see a value in having a global preference. You > also seem to agree on this point. I agree with having an Emacs-wide preference rule, not with asking users to define those preferences. > > Major mode _does_ have a part: it registers only the handlers it wants > > to support. So it determines, up front, which media types will be > > available, even if more of them are in the clipboard. > > I agree but its participation could be improved. When you copy a cell > from LibreOffice's Excel clone, it puts both image/png and a TSV data > type in your clipboard. Taking the example of Org which has a handler > registered for image/png: if it registers a handler for the TSV data > type, the user would be asked to choose between image/png and TSV when > she copies a table cell. The intent of registering image/png is a > hindrance here. Having a separate command for yanking a table cell > would remove the convenience of having a single command that does TRT. The default yank-media (e.g., with an argument) should yank the TSV format, and only offer the PNG format as an option if the user for some reason wants that. > > Please tell me why on earth would you prefer PNG to JPEG when yanking, > > or vice versa. The result is an image displayed in the buffer, which > > is neither PNG nor JPEG. Why does it matter _for_you_personally_ > > which intermediate format will Emacs use as part of the yanking > > process? > > You answered the question yourself: > > For example, JPEG is generally inferior because it's lossy, so we > could have that hypothetical variant of yank-media which doesn't ask > questions to always prefer PNG to JPEG if both are possible. That is not something we should ask users to do, IMO. > > If we want to avoid the question when several image formats are > > available, we could teach Org, or Emacs in general, which formats to > > prefer. For example, JPEG is generally inferior because it's lossy, > > so we could have that hypothetical variant of yank-media which doesn't > > ask questions to always prefer PNG to JPEG if both are possible. This > > is IMO better than asking the users to decide that for Emacs. > > I agree, but can we, at least, agree that it should be easy to override > it completely? Override how and for what purpose? If we have a command which asks the user to select one format from a list of available ones, the general preference can always be overridden, just on a case by case basis. Why do we also need to override it globally? > > Anyway, since with this message we've made a full circle, let me > > summarize my opinions on this: > > > > . I think we should add to Emacs rules for preferring one media > > format over the others when several are available and supported > > . Such rules should be customized by major modes based on their > > features and preferences (e.g., a mode that has no support for > > faces might prefer plain text to other textual formats) > > (1) and (2) would be best done with the help of user feedback. Feedback is always welcome, but I submit that we can formulate a very good approximation for the rules without any feedback. > IMO, coming up with such rules is a long game that requires user > feedback (like the one that started this whole thread). No, I think it is actually quite simple and will be quite close to the optimum the first time we come up with such rules. It is possible that a major mode will want to override the rules, for its own reasons, but that should also be very obvious for each mode. > > . I think we should have a variant of yank-media that yanks "the > > best" of the available formats without asking, based on the above > > rules > > I like your idea of reusing C-u for this. > > > If after all of this people still want a global "preference", I won't > > mount the barricades to fight that, although, as I explained, such a > > global preference makes little sense to me, and sounds like an > > inferior replacement for the missing built-in preference rules I think > > we should have. > > The built-in preference rules is already a global "preference" from > where I stand. Only that, the OP wanted control over these rules. And I'm saying that I don't understand why users would need such control, in addition to being able to select a format in each case.