From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Ted Zlatanov Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: composed characters question and suggestions for quail-cyrillic-* Date: Mon, 07 Jul 2008 15:12:32 -0500 Organization: =?utf-8?B?0KLQtdC+0LTQvtGAINCX0LvQsNGC0LDQvdC+0LI=?= @ Cienfuegos Message-ID: <86skulfo7j.fsf@lifelogs.com> References: <86lk19mmua.fsf@lifelogs.com> <485298A4.30000@gnu.org> <867ict8awn.fsf@lifelogs.com> <87zlouswvk.fsf@jurta.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1215461320 19227 80.91.229.12 (7 Jul 2008 20:08:40 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2008 20:08:40 +0000 (UTC) To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Mon Jul 07 22:09:27 2008 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1KFx1a-0003tf-Ei for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 07 Jul 2008 22:09:27 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:33323 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1KFx0i-0000ja-Js for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 07 Jul 2008 16:08:32 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1KFx0e-0000i3-1W for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 07 Jul 2008 16:08:28 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1KFx0d-0000hZ-Mj for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 07 Jul 2008 16:08:27 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (port=51050 helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1KFx0d-0000hM-8H for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 07 Jul 2008 16:08:27 -0400 Original-Received: from main.gmane.org ([80.91.229.2]:39828 helo=ciao.gmane.org) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS-1.0:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1KFx0b-0002q4-Ui for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 07 Jul 2008 16:08:26 -0400 Original-Received: from list by ciao.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.43) id 1KFx0Z-0001lS-4L for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 07 Jul 2008 20:08:23 +0000 Original-Received: from 38.98.147.130 ([38.98.147.130]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Mon, 07 Jul 2008 20:08:23 +0000 Original-Received: from tzz by 38.98.147.130 with local (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Mon, 07 Jul 2008 20:08:23 +0000 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ Original-Lines: 57 Original-X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: 38.98.147.130 X-Face: bd.DQ~'29fIs`T_%O%C\g%6jW)yi[zuz6; d4V0`@y-~$#3P_Ng{@m+e4o<4P'#(_GJQ%TT= D}[Ep*b!\e,fBZ'j_+#"Ps?s2!4H2-Y"sx" User-Agent: Gnus/5.110011 (No Gnus v0.11) Emacs/23.0.60 (gnu/linux) Cancel-Lock: sha1:iWkUPiVEYakCeqyJk8TUEYF/3+M= X-detected-kernel: by monty-python.gnu.org: Linux 2.6, seldom 2.4 (older, 4) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:100428 Archived-At: On Sun, 06 Jul 2008 21:41:45 +0300 Juri Linkov wrote: JL> 1. It uses the acute accent to put the grave accent above letters, JL> e.g. ("'a" ?à) ("'o" ?ò). A correct way to implement this is to use the JL> acute accent to put the acute accent above letters, and to use the grave JL> accent to put the grave accent above letters, as all Latin input methods JL> do, e.g. ("'a" ?á) ("'o" ?ó) ("`a" ?à) ("`o" ?ò). You are right. But please note that AFAIK in Cyrillic it's rare to find acute accents, so the idea was "accent the next letter" and the ' key is much more convenient on modern keyboards. For Cyrillic in particular, it may make sense to use ' as the accent prefix or accept it in addition to `. If you still think only ` should be used, I'll commit a patch immediately. JL> 2. It uses accented Latin letters à, ò that is inappropriate for JL> Cyrillic texts. The only valid way (as I understand according to JL> Unicode specifications) is to use combining characters. I think I mentioned this in an earlier post. Combining characters look inconsistent and sometimes take up two lines of text in Emacs, so I thought it would be acceptable to use the accented Latin letters. If not, I'm OK with replacing them with the combining versions. Please note I'm not an expert on this topic, so I greatly appreciate your recommendations. JL> 3. It turns "'" into a prefix key, but it is used to input "ь" according JL> to the rule ("'" ?ь). Would it be possible to move ь under the ' prefix? As I mentioned the ' key is very convenient and ь is not a frequently-needed letter. It actually works fine for me as it is (unless I need to type something like ьо, which is rare), but I see the problem. JL> 4. «»“„‘‚§№ is too limited set of necessary characters and this set is JL> not specific to `cyrillic-translit'. Different styles of quotation JL> marks are required by typographic rules in other several languages and JL> scripts besides Cyrillic, and these rules also require using other JL> symbols like dashes of different lengths, nbsp, 1/2, 1/4, subscripts, JL> copyright, currency signs, and many more. In the specific cases I know (I only write in Bulgarian frequently), the characters I added are most needed. If you or others want to add more characters, go ahead or tell me what needs to be added. JL> So instead of copying the same rules to all input method a better JL> way is to create a separate common input method with all these JL> special symbols and to share it with language specific input JL> methods. My suggestion was essentially to build a prefix tree for Slavic languages, since they share enough typographic rules, and to insert it into every specific input method. Using a secondary input method works better so I hope it can happen (if Kenichi Handa's patch is OK). Thanks again Ted