From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: discoverability, better defaults and which-key in Emacs Date: Sat, 03 Feb 2024 14:12:41 +0200 Message-ID: <86sf293fwm.fsf@gnu.org> References: <874jetaxri.fsf@jeremybryant.net> <86fryc1vsh.fsf@gnu.org> <87y1c398u8.fsf@jeremybryant.net> <867cjnz7rc.fsf@gnu.org> <87jznnbbax.fsf@dataswamp.org> <86v877xqez.fsf@gnu.org> <87mssh7owx.fsf@jeremybryant.net> Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="31453"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: incal@dataswamp.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Jeremy Bryant Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sat Feb 03 13:13:39 2024 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1rWEtu-0007xP-Go for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sat, 03 Feb 2024 13:13:38 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1rWEt7-0001c4-1D; Sat, 03 Feb 2024 07:12:49 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1rWEt4-0001ba-8A for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 03 Feb 2024 07:12:46 -0500 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1rWEt3-0005Bk-3k; Sat, 03 Feb 2024 07:12:45 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=Fe/WvqTa0UJp2OLlJNn/Xc1mCvisjEAhCuyYC+UIURw=; b=NpZCGaUVl+Nq CidNmJbST8bgZsDprGqpYYDtysZA61RcX3tP0pYoAMmkpbqnEyjX+ZDIriltTTGmuv679gIuprDJ2 mf3iBSIuGhjg2SvMv3MIO+y3JoO04R3GMxIcVGZAiPY4lb/UzQH/5GKWszGvqGRceQdjpA9k0mnGZ VYZYaOyyRTQA5KH60kR2PSg6baD6ldpK104czbBiPJIaCHgX2yzJAwoaFNTU0rQshLKs1ChlssPS/ 2/ijA++/D8nmbJwUjeoBoSOlDax+54Gt7b4ykJHaUB7jho6TY/cMWVkukGO6o1WqAZ1jsexWFg7jX hv8feyxNSnODBfexC8HC6w==; In-Reply-To: <87mssh7owx.fsf@jeremybryant.net> (message from Jeremy Bryant on Sat, 03 Feb 2024 11:39:50 +0000) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:315822 Archived-At: > From: Jeremy Bryant > Cc: Emanuel Berg , emacs-devel@gnu.org > Date: Sat, 03 Feb 2024 11:39:50 +0000 > > > Eli Zaretskii writes: > > >> From: Emanuel Berg > >> Date: Fri, 02 Feb 2024 08:00:22 +0100 > >> > >> Instead of Emacs finding out who is a new user or old, new and > >> old users alike should find what they look for in Emacs. > >> > >> With configuration, maybe one can have a FAQ specifically for > >> that. If one has the 20 most common configuration use cases > >> listed with Elisp one-liners to do it, that would be a good > >> start. And beyond that, people already have experience anyway. > > > > This idea came up several times here, and was met with a general > > agreement, but no one stepped forward to work on those "most common > > configurations". And it is not easy to do, since the configurations > > depend on the needs of the user (whether the user is a programmer and > > in what language(s), what other tasks and jobs does the user want to > > accomplish in Emacs -- email, todo items, etc.) and also some general > > user preferences (mouse vs keyboard etc.). > > > > Patches welcome, of course. > > Would it be useful to have a few 'starter' commented init files / > configurations. > This would be a built-in version of personal init files, but very small, > and commented. I think the idea was to have an interactive feature, whereby a user is asked questions regarding his/her preferences and needs, and the related features are then enabled. A related idea was to come up with mostly-independent groups of settings that are suitable for some general usage pattern. For example, someone who needs to develop Python programs might want certain optional features enabled. Having init files like you suggest once again places the burden on the users to read the comments and decide what to do about them. I think this is not the optimal solution. > > Some Emacs commands I suggest for this are: > > > > C-u M-x apropos > > M-x apropos-documentation > > C-h R elisp RET followed by 'i' (Info-index) and the subject > > Would it make sense to have a specific small section in the Emacs manual > that > Then a link to that manual section could be provided early on > A sort of 'discoverability start point'? We already have it: see the beginning of the "Help" node in the user manual.