From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Message Mode and bidi Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2024 19:23:58 +0200 Message-ID: <86sf1csdsh.fsf@gnu.org> References: <87v86ldzpw.fsf@aura.christopherculver.com> <867cj1qg4m.fsf@gnu.org> <8734to16tw.fsf@aura.christopherculver.com> <86bk8cw20e.fsf@p200300d627023a0ad1f3c3db8ccb4c50.dip0.t-ipconnect.de> <87frxoyuq4.fsf@aura.christopherculver.com> <87ttm4klnl.fsf@ericabrahamsen.net> <86y1bfolgf.fsf@gnu.org> <87h6i3lnp8.fsf@ericabrahamsen.net> <86o7cbnqxb.fsf@gnu.org> <87edcwcyw1.fsf@ericabrahamsen.net> Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="11850"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Eric Abrahamsen Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Wed Feb 28 18:25:12 2024 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1rfNg7-0002lA-RM for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Wed, 28 Feb 2024 18:25:11 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1rfNf1-00024Q-Nc; Wed, 28 Feb 2024 12:24:03 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1rfNf0-00024F-6n for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 28 Feb 2024 12:24:02 -0500 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1rfNez-0000Mg-Mq; Wed, 28 Feb 2024 12:24:01 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=VxGQZBrGkgTHrKRD4sfjWtS1iSCSxteYBEQwOo+tfwM=; b=N/d88vrjjve/ jhQfi0HhAZcoaheUdpjfVeRC//DpnKGT4iFh1Dt8kJBAqkeGVpOHw3+LOtF+XJx2AcUOu5qWt+X/j ri5H6S5r6gm5WcBfAGXFaPv6fODZEV2uIeUSeKk7H4OqnpON4UltRlvlHVi958KiZwtqLruiHV85K FoQ0BwgK+BFTZRc9NLzdNEx4OfzXRPTVRddYIzDS/NQdvMh8nNEn51Tp9fBZNxSmtvCylNCCbpDiG HgnyndqSCmvEXbuiI3GvjttYC+hGEpjw6PAKxh12LI+ivx1a8yirFz0bwc29v1cH85PT3/WA72lM9 AtyqaHa3EmBAvw/OChlO5w==; In-Reply-To: <87edcwcyw1.fsf@ericabrahamsen.net> (message from Eric Abrahamsen on Wed, 28 Feb 2024 08:54:54 -0800) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:316626 Archived-At: > From: Eric Abrahamsen > Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2024 08:54:54 -0800 > > Eli Zaretskii writes: > > > But beware: doing this in Emacs will cause effects that are unpleasant > > to readers of bidirectional text, because you could have "chess-like" > > text display, like this: > > > > asasasasasasasasasasasasassa > > ASASASASASASASASASASASASA > > xcxcxcxcxcxcxcxcxcxcxcxcxc > > JKJNJKKKNKNKNKNKNK > > > > etc. Here upper-case letters stand for RTL (like Arabic or Farsi) > > text and lower-case letters stand for LTR (like Latin or Cyrillic) > > text. > > This is the effect I was imagining in the header section of the message > buffer, and why I thought we should probably skip trying to handle this. > message-mode headers can be "continuation headers", as well, effectively > line-wrapped, which would make it even harder. Yes. But the same can happen in the body of the message, and will IMO be even more annoying, because people do care about the body. > Thanks for the background! I guess I was hoping that we could at least > support OP's original request, which is making the first paragraph of > the message body independent of the mail header separator as regards > BIDI display. I experimented with putting the value of > `mail-header-separator' into `bidi-paragraph-start|separate-re', but > couldn't get it to display that first paragraph starting on the right. > Do you think this is feasible, and worth the effort? No, I don't think it's worth the effort, even if you succeed. The price of leaving an empty line after the headers is so small that it isn't worth the hassle to try to avoid it. Once the user does that a few times, the technique will be burned into his/her muscle memory (I know because I went through that process myself, long ago).