From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: discoverability, better defaults and which-key in Emacs Date: Thu, 08 Feb 2024 15:02:50 +0200 Message-ID: <86r0hnw1l1.fsf@gnu.org> References: <874jetaxri.fsf@jeremybryant.net> <87le84oqbd.fsf@yahoo.com> <87plxdpsxw.fsf@posteo.net> <87r0hridvr.fsf@posteo.net> <5dd3d04c-c0eb-43fe-b7c2-957f80261ea3@gutov.dev> <87eddqiw84.fsf@posteo.net> <32071337-c91d-46ad-bb9b-10b8d0c83965@gutov.dev> <86h6ikzc38.fsf@gnu.org> <1056a72d-af5c-487e-be33-67522fe47d17@gutov.dev> <87r0hnohgv.fsf@gmail.com> <86a5obxwy9.fsf@gnu.org> <61ffccc8-56c0-4b14-9420-2d0fd9cac216@gutov.dev> Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="28120"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: visuweshm@gmail.com, justin@burkett.cc, philipk@posteo.net, luangruo@yahoo.com, jb@jeremybryant.net, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Dmitry Gutov Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Thu Feb 08 14:03:27 2024 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1rY43r-00078d-8u for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Thu, 08 Feb 2024 14:03:27 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1rY43O-0006CM-BK; Thu, 08 Feb 2024 08:02:58 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1rY43K-0006Bx-V1 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 08 Feb 2024 08:02:56 -0500 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1rY43K-0005cM-FA; Thu, 08 Feb 2024 08:02:54 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=T13eG5eFRXw6qxQJDRuRGYKMFgXJPpJOHuRit+9YSiE=; b=rcUygQ4LVjK4 4PZBW51hE2U6sEXpwfWUHg86oSW1gJ/3OySpstX/YlYkdsKE+gMSTI6ruLOaUWh87/kgVCmDQkSQp pOCbJH7QYdRREp9SfN9OWXGhP+HhgGnx4imE7EREhz4fy63nBg3LqxU0bps+yjfPz1MDJBsycjRra Rv2MHYC5HiOAmbr61k651kW5PmuXpMBPx9k3aYOFzzkQqsm/f/KLya3ZnjHq0hvZ4ZesMlnodYv+M TtLm6DutrAXgY0I2lLp8tAlsqGJFVcKJDHqR6p7Mxpk2k0XkSuO17zoGY8sii3lsMv3dpT112nlmI ajOVZlq4CDxVjAojTdQgtw==; In-Reply-To: <61ffccc8-56c0-4b14-9420-2d0fd9cac216@gutov.dev> (message from Dmitry Gutov on Thu, 8 Feb 2024 14:18:34 +0200) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:316027 Archived-At: > Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2024 14:18:34 +0200 > Cc: justin@burkett.cc, philipk@posteo.net, luangruo@yahoo.com, > jb@jeremybryant.net, emacs-devel@gnu.org > From: Dmitry Gutov > > On 08/02/2024 08:59, Eli Zaretskii wrote: > > But > > I added F1 to that text, which should help if someone did change > > help-char. > > Whether help-char is changed, or 'C-h' is rebound anyway, can all be > detected at runtime. can also have a different binding in the > current prefix map--then the new message would be doubly incorrect. How frequently do people rebind F1? IME, never. But I don't object to adding runtime detection of the help keys. > I'd rather we picked one (preferably correct) suggestion and printed that. Most people will never rebind C-h. Those who do could rebind it to a character that cannot be used in this situation because it is already bound in various prefix maps. Having two alternatives there increases the probability that one of them will work. > For context: I customize echo-keystrokes to a very low value and > currently see this help message quite often. If the message annoys you, you can disable it.