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[2001:44b8:31f2:bb00:842a:7361:87c7:2662]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id k1-20020a170902760100b0017870f471f6sm9560711pll.226.2022.09.25.13.31.31 for (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Sun, 25 Sep 2022 13:31:32 -0700 (PDT) In-reply-to: <83leq7naql.fsf@gnu.org> Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2607:f8b0:4864:20::429; envelope-from=theophilusx@gmail.com; helo=mail-pf1-x429.google.com X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:296234 Archived-At: Eli Zaretskii writes: >> From: Bastien >> Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org >> Date: Sun, 25 Sep 2022 08:35:54 +0200 >> >> Respecting the GNU standards about manuals ("The preferred document >> format for the GNU system is the Texinfo formatting language.") and >> the recent discussions provide good reasons for switching back to >> .texi, if all maintainers agree. > > I definitely agree (it makes it easier for me to contribute to the Org > manual). But eventually it is the decision of the Org project. and I would be exactly the opposite. I know and use org-mode. I don't know and have never used texinfo despite over 25 years of Emacs use. Having to learn another formatting solution just to contribute to the formatting solution I use isn't going to be encouraging. The question I wonder about is where are we most likely to get the majority of our contributions from, those who use org mode and know it or those who don't and for those who use org-mode, how many will know texinfo? I know one of the original justifications was to see if it improved contributions towards documentation and it appears this has not been the case. However, I do wonder about that - I have certainly seen numerous manual patches on the list and I wonder how many of those would not occur if the patcher also needed to know texinfo? There may also be other impediments which slows down contributions that are unrelated to the documentation format (I still find determining if something is a known issue or not and the state of progress to resolving it difficult to track - not a criticism of the core maintainers, who I believe do an incredible job. Real problem is the challenge of realising a better process given the very very few core contributors available - basically a resourcing challenge). At the end of the day, I think the dog food argument is important. Having the manual in org format has seen a number of improvements and does provide a good and most importantly large and used example. Having a sample document which developers could use to verify parsers etc would be a good addition, but the problem with such documents is they tend not to be maintained and are not actively used. There is huge value in having a large and reasonably complex document which is being actively updated/enhanced and which is used in the real world to produce documents in various formats which are also actively read and used. It tends to be in active use of generated documents we find more subtle issues, things which tend to be missed in cursory scans of test documents.