From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Adding a generic mathematical library Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2024 12:03:51 +0300 Message-ID: <86le1zf4w8.fsf@gnu.org> References: <8734o9sdig.fsf@posteo.net> <87wmllqq66.fsf@posteo.net> <87plrdqnhc.fsf@posteo.net> <87le21qldj.fsf_-_@posteo.net> <87r0bssde4.fsf@web.de> <87frs8sb8p.fsf@web.de> <87zfqf8c8n.fsf@dataswamp.org> <86plrbf990.fsf@gnu.org> <87ttgn874b.fsf@dataswamp.org> Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="8933"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Emanuel Berg Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Thu Jul 18 11:04:56 2024 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1sUN4J-0001tf-Ft for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Thu, 18 Jul 2024 11:04:55 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1sUN3P-0000lz-L4; Thu, 18 Jul 2024 05:03:59 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1sUN3L-0000V7-QJ for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 18 Jul 2024 05:03:55 -0400 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1sUN3K-0004zv-Cg; Thu, 18 Jul 2024 05:03:54 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=fybVfTxIyzBTr+PvlJBQ768AzEALwUDuqZQw5y0mkLY=; b=a5i78DHXeery ZKQLbpxSpxTwySXaLsr2woUqXzBaGDtEShosnPQ2S/BB+aWqvb35UzG/2mRe4p6z1AC+gZGhcT8ay Gm5aImLkSJ8EZxHCVEBQPJ7MCfHIIPoHv7YRCO/QpWBHYg3A/gFu9MDz0Qq7XlieF4yAVMaWkHZPp buTbEm+lexQchIvkjjBE2ciwWmxBAp6l2vGg6ZuV3taTgcpbmcpDn70AIEij1piaWDCCdClymW9We kP0LQk6/9d+Xz/KZ0vlMAsReTHnhaYNEc1svQuLwq7hk2jkemHnz7I9z/FJqsKyN7gQwkRecB+JK1 2lcubkpUP3+fu8qBDsbbkg==; In-Reply-To: <87ttgn874b.fsf@dataswamp.org> (message from Emanuel Berg on Thu, 18 Jul 2024 09:57:40 +0200) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:321785 Archived-At: > From: Emanuel Berg > Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2024 09:57:40 +0200 > > Eli Zaretskii wrote: > > > To have a math library on ELPA, the library should be > > reasonably-comprehensive, use solid algorithms, and solve > > problems that happen in real life frequently enough. > > By contrast, my impression from looking at your library > > [...] > > Unbelievable, no one has suggested adding that file to ELPA. You said, and I quote: > Maybe we should have a math library in ELPA, then it will be > less hesitation to just add stuff that is desired as we go > along, not having to argue what relevance it has to Emacs > per se as a piece of text editing software. I was not sure whether you were talking about the library you posted, so I qualified myself, quote again: > If what you offer is to have a completely different library, then we > need first to talk what will be in it and which algorithms it will > implement. "Math functions" is a very broad term, so defining the > scope for such a library is not a trivial job. Okay? > > is that it is an ad-hoc collection of functions that solve > > problems you personally find useful, but their general > > usefulness is IMO questionable > > Incorrect, most math functions in it are really basic so one > would expect them to be present in one form of another. I disagree. My evidence is that the need for functions presented in your library, if it exists, was not strong enough, otherwise people would be asking for some of these functions long ago. > > and at least in some cases the algorithms are not the best > > ones known for the job. For example, your mean-value > > function implements a naive algorithm that has known > > accuracy and round-off issues. > > Unbelievable comment. This is indeed the problem that happens, > as has been said in this very thread: without libraries and > common projects individual people solve their problems locally > with no incremental gain from one person to another. So it > won't be as good. And now you see an example of that, bringing > it up as a reason we can't have a math library in ELPA? OK, so if you want to talk about adding a math library, I point you back to my comment above: we should first discuss its scope and design.