From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Joel Reicher Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Proposal: new default bindings for winner and windmove Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2024 00:41:19 +1000 Message-ID: <86jzibrckw.fsf@gmail.com> References: <7133BE83-064B-43A4-A193-61376605222C@dancol.org> <055E6E92-6971-409E-A106-7E0C64FEF856@dancol.org> <87bk3r22x5.fsf@yahoo.com> <746FE961-37C5-4387-8274-7D90908EE2D6@dancol.org> <8734p3219c.fsf@yahoo.com> <867cefeo1w.fsf@gnu.org> <8734p03e94.fsf@jeremybryant.net> <867cec9ccl.fsf@gnu.org> <877D0EA4-CAC1-4FA3-8102-8AC7446AFAED@dancol.org> <87msn7x058.fsf@yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="9565"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Cc: Daniel Colascione , Alan Mackenzie , Eli Zaretskii , Jeremy Bryant , stefankangas@gmail.com, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Po Lu Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Wed Jun 26 16:42:03 2024 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1sMTqU-0002FM-Kq for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Wed, 26 Jun 2024 16:42:02 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1sMTq2-0003j8-VY; Wed, 26 Jun 2024 10:41:34 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1sMTpx-0003iE-7O for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 26 Jun 2024 10:41:30 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-il1-x12d.google.com ([2607:f8b0:4864:20::12d]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1sMTpv-0003V5-QF; Wed, 26 Jun 2024 10:41:29 -0400 Original-Received: by mail-il1-x12d.google.com with SMTP id e9e14a558f8ab-376517b9408so12380265ab.0; Wed, 26 Jun 2024 07:41:26 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1719412885; x=1720017685; darn=gnu.org; h=mime-version:user-agent:message-id:date:references:in-reply-to :subject:cc:to:from:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=XOuakiy4H4waLpcjD+MHyddiq/ud9LEUL15rLv13owU=; b=Dg4W9DsYxEjyfVLS+dCydk4xVgJMuUmEUxdNr0rtsMFH4ZpXX7o78DH0z1htSbFXfN Muy9IErcB1Go7H9bnt7qvZrhnp7ZzDnKip7S6xm9gVq6wIwkS48IJJ/prTKjftW5AQVE a2V7EoAyANmaay0MtzZwqyTLKHy8ZUZ1nVPaMEQdIHght5/s2mU//MIt0tPzKbH51xlK jeaOdwqDHAprdfjgYiee8BVwDMsFDbWmflX5RSc0YgewaZlaTCVv+P+BheLw2AgcV4UC GwWbHRdwAfKBgJ6zYG+mWTCPv3zJ0e3DS/RrY4iEvG+WiV+xfmFsNNPNQgwTzfIwwRYw s27g== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1719412885; x=1720017685; h=mime-version:user-agent:message-id:date:references:in-reply-to :subject:cc:to:from:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date :message-id:reply-to; bh=XOuakiy4H4waLpcjD+MHyddiq/ud9LEUL15rLv13owU=; b=o67NgwgDDxIzr6ITSGi+Rrd5noqeBGbJmcN8ZFrlLLDxrPggm7rcLtJOpKNNwHy4Y0 PDfDDhxYktwkx27lh/JENHNXOcX8wmmzuhDZVavxhCq0FMSm8Y/WeHmvWPZ4GdoNt7pc AmnScldzYiEaVxa6z/kGAlQ7PnrNBu6ASvVi3KCJoX1ya5HmsJlSPKB6qxOjAHQFGRl3 uQapJ3NiV3/fDcyiqTQuZbKzyy2reAhx4EIBvP5jPJjOnWAF6PYdjCAfyp8P6bRhHmTk hxhBBJHIKLvF14w4P0CF0Sd/x94M0yvG6EjW26o/IEa9T2NoYXF055diaemzmRAlfyJX ft8g== X-Forwarded-Encrypted: i=1; AJvYcCXVltK//g0n8INxr0nyZYrG+qH4WtMMzbls0HetHcb9sNOnkjfMlgAg4yoqnz+EE3/DLrZ1QDRJM+dFyJvocC/qaehzT3Ttwx3Yoy/8zlJ64Qk= X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0Yx5hdRaVLwwdXw/B/jtX8st2XRFkJZ5ojDYMn8tWAtpgSLb/DV6 KFwVpoi+TMR6wJ1zwfKE/74mbThL38O7sbVfqhr6iO2f5XGArnAj7MgrzUVz X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IGtNAXR4ZF5SboyojDaz/osXnLk6GWEy+zvngfZVJeJOXOwJ36+CsAx3X3KhREpLKoarT2VEg== X-Received: by 2002:a05:6e02:1c04:b0:376:1299:81e8 with SMTP id e9e14a558f8ab-3763b34f02cmr151975245ab.28.1719412885614; Wed, 26 Jun 2024 07:41:25 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from LAPTOP-ACR66VVN (139-218-25-158.sta.wbroadband.net.au. [139.218.25.158]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id 41be03b00d2f7-718b921af9csm6431230a12.68.2024.06.26.07.41.22 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Wed, 26 Jun 2024 07:41:25 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <87msn7x058.fsf@yahoo.com> (Po Lu's message of "Wed, 26 Jun 2024 22:13:23 +0800") Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2607:f8b0:4864:20::12d; envelope-from=joel.reicher@gmail.com; helo=mail-il1-x12d.google.com X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:320702 Archived-At: Po Lu writes: > Daniel Colascione writes: > >> Because it's useful to navigate windows positionally as well as >> temporally. Other-window often has unpredictable effects and >> navigating with windmove DWIM. > > Most users will for this purpose use the mouse, if there is > really such a number of windows that navigating with > other-window is impractical. > > I'm disposed to say that this situation seldom appears in > practice, or we should have received proposals to grant windmove > default keybindings much earlier. And don't let's be given a > lecture as to the inherent incompatibility of the mouse with > Emacs's ethos or some such. Please can we err on the side of *choice*. I for one very much enjoy staying away from the mouse and navigating four or more windows with windmove, but I can well imagine some others may use the mouse. I don't think it's necessary to guess at the majority, and I think it improves the experience for everyone if we don't. Thanks and regards, - Joel