From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Tim Cross Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Renaming eglot -- or at least add an alias? Date: Wed, 05 Oct 2022 09:31:06 +1100 Message-ID: <86h70jur5f.fsf@gmail.com> References: <87ill0i2ir.fsf@disroot.org> <86tu4juu8i.fsf@gmail.com> <87fsg35jmv.fsf@posteo.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="25891"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: mu4e 1.9.0; emacs 29.0.50 Cc: rms@gnu.org, Akib Azmain Turja , numbchild@gmail.com, stefankangas@gmail.com, joaotavora@gmail.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Philip Kaludercic Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Wed Oct 05 01:07:42 2022 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1ofr0n-0006X7-RH for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Wed, 05 Oct 2022 01:07:41 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:42216 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1ofr0k-0002kF-O8 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Tue, 04 Oct 2022 19:07:38 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:41008) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1ofqy6-0000vi-RA for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 04 Oct 2022 19:04:54 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-pg1-x534.google.com ([2607:f8b0:4864:20::534]:33297) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1ofqy4-0001Ni-VL; Tue, 04 Oct 2022 19:04:54 -0400 Original-Received: by mail-pg1-x534.google.com with SMTP id f193so13923457pgc.0; Tue, 04 Oct 2022 16:04:52 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=mime-version:message-id:in-reply-to:date:subject:cc:to:from :user-agent:references:from:to:cc:subject:date; bh=aujWttsqNIGW6qrELlgZjYYjVIoouCSB52L8phqrN6A=; b=kGxe8G8jo65fDbOD+w5OWW51Tly43cVE9TjFBDq+Qd887/471UMHljcHYUNsqgMs3B u+ndmnq8hZ/DcU8lWTSa49Oxw/L5ynYhPyb3dZzs4eMhNOPwPTpqRao2vhDc5bSy2dx+ eiixj52XTO5kIoc1HP1JNI0hqfeqK8MRHVGARzXHUif6sbPXwcS/2TBtXQfr+acfBTav TTIGcbInzez2nR+zMJkgZPHN7Qe54/zhU+Ela3cXIlYElienyQV36DLKkJArdacOrB9S At2hc2Zk063tlbqfE5F5QEzBIjmjCTQLeIXRFPK3btfbihmccn8D0dyD4zSTwyWihn0M U1eg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=mime-version:message-id:in-reply-to:date:subject:cc:to:from :user-agent:references:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date; bh=aujWttsqNIGW6qrELlgZjYYjVIoouCSB52L8phqrN6A=; b=5Eq6xH0K5NS5yod+JpwK7X01AtTrsoAyD1Z9MfVZiYAPMHYqmxMr00DK0NrgpyNt1F OWCCLyPJVfYZ5j29wcoHjeknOICBMYXh9WzoI/sinaZlbAfwskxBbPWWOjiywcEArmZA o026SZ2MtdM95j2qoSCk1T/U11vw4nbfSAjH4J22Q76zICtdCHjsKnIBtEJSGaEA/XYT XvNxBljH89IevRJn8BKjlMcwW2IEcHKAzEFj3pOGWp8osrTmxYa7uKHzKLawgL1hwn04 RT60kkYHlcKJg90uS3Q3wdo6rJnrxClD93UBdQP1u3GKP5pxiYX0P0L2hbO6YruNkVfp kqUA== X-Gm-Message-State: ACrzQf31n3i9bu6EtcdYdlGA3XLuQ1OgDtTV1pOQ4unmLvFNWkK7Hqip oQMWj/KALT3JY0PILHUIsuPn7NMYk5feIA== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AMsMyM6FRXKmtaVw/sZINEBjEdl0LSiJIdf1kTI3+6ljEU2OIqH5U+c9MKyO3F4RVoNWW5I2PlUv/Q== X-Received: by 2002:a65:55c5:0:b0:454:228c:8973 with SMTP id k5-20020a6555c5000000b00454228c8973mr5794863pgs.545.1664924690824; Tue, 04 Oct 2022 16:04:50 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from dingbat (124-169-22-230.dyn.iinet.net.au. [124.169.22.230]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id j30-20020a634a5e000000b0044394a14279sm7241640pgl.23.2022.10.04.16.04.47 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Tue, 04 Oct 2022 16:04:50 -0700 (PDT) In-reply-to: <87fsg35jmv.fsf@posteo.net> Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2607:f8b0:4864:20::534; envelope-from=theophilusx@gmail.com; helo=mail-pg1-x534.google.com X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:296934 Archived-At: Philip Kaludercic writes: > Tim Cross writes: > >> Then you suggest we should change the name of company mode, a mode which >> has been extremely successful and over the many years it has existed, >> I've never seen a single person say anything like "Oh wow, I just >> discovered what company is, if only it had a better name which would >> have alerted me sooner!". > > I was like that, when I had first heard of both "auto-complete-mode" and > "company-mode" I preferred the former because the name was more > descriptive, and "company-mode" made the impression of being > "commercial" software. In the end I switched because it was technically > superior, but I hesitated for a long while no other reason than the > name. > > While it might be that many don't care about names, it is unreasonable > to assume that nobody prefers generic, descriptive names. So, suddenly, because I disagree with the necessity to change the name of eglot, I suddenly don't care about names or assume nobody prefers generic, descriptive names? That is just nonsense. It is the fact I care about the name I've been involved in this discussion. I've lost count of how many times I've said this. I'm not against descriptive names. What I'm against is the requirement for a descriptive name to take precedence over all other important attributes of a good name. I would also suggest, based on your experience with company mode, that you put too much weight in the meaning of a name. The old saying about never judging a book by its cover seems somewhat relevant here. Most people don't select packages (either in Emacs or anywhere else) based just on the name. They fact you didn't look at the description of company mode and judged it solely based on the name is really a failure in your process, not in the package name. Out of interest, given the name 'auto-complete' was already taken, what would have been your preferred name for 'company'? In this age of internet data and internet searching, I would suggest that uniqueness of a name is actually far more important than the descriptive attributes of the name. When your lucky enough to be able to have both a descriptive and unique name, fantastic. However, the name being descriptive should not be a requirement. At the end of the day, the reason this debate is going on and on is because nobody who is pushing for a name change has come up with a single suggestion which adds more value than it destroys. RMS has suggested Parse Code, which I think is one of the worse suggestions so far - it is inaccurate and misleading, will make searching for help and problem solutions much harder, will likely cause confusion in communications, is longer and attempts to 'own' the name of a generic process which many other packages implement. In fact, if I was searching for a code parser, I would be frustrated by that package showing up as it doesn't do what it says on the box. When I search for a code parser, I want something which will parse my code so that I can then do something with that parsed/toeknised result, I'm not interested in a client for LSP servers.