From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Stephen Leake Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Emacs Survey: Toolbars Date: Tue, 15 Dec 2020 11:06:58 -0800 Message-ID: <86ft46nb1p.fsf@stephe-leake.org> References: <87o8iv3ac3.fsf@gnus.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="31608"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/27.1 (windows-nt) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: =?utf-8?Q?Cl=C3=A9ment?= Pit-Claudel Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Tue Dec 15 20:10:49 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1kpFii-00087z-Tf for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Tue, 15 Dec 2020 20:10:48 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:49588 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kpFih-0003HD-Vi for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Tue, 15 Dec 2020 14:10:47 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:51050) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kpFhQ-0002oS-Fo for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 15 Dec 2020 14:09:28 -0500 Original-Received: from gateway30.websitewelcome.com ([192.185.145.3]:24883) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kpFhO-0002r2-Ms for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 15 Dec 2020 14:09:28 -0500 Original-Received: from cm16.websitewelcome.com (cm16.websitewelcome.com [100.42.49.19]) by gateway30.websitewelcome.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8C14A12E7F for ; Tue, 15 Dec 2020 13:07:03 -0600 (CST) Original-Received: from host2007.hostmonster.com ([67.20.76.71]) by cmsmtp with SMTP id pFf3ktN2dHPnUpFf3k9nZK; Tue, 15 Dec 2020 13:07:03 -0600 X-Authority-Reason: nr=8 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=stephe-leake.org; s=default; h=Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-Type: MIME-Version:Message-ID:In-Reply-To:Date:References:Subject:Cc:To:From:Sender :Reply-To:Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From: Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help: List-Unsubscribe:List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=4bQlbS2uqWJ/KqNUJnSrVGOliWIj6cH29HjOuEYRAUE=; b=nlMSsYEDbp1Zbc3mXMZVLl+QKT G2/UEmct4229G4l6HFTxTD4D4QcJ1/Gemn6oF+X8FCzNGHfZvGeS6SvPgTm444dsnKt823PV0lsXJ 6r1jj75VeekVlSEF+lCjUWJDHpkLJOU05//lWHvxZQIR5DcUCMS3JDCODnJ+OY3HzsjhnP4sXumth 6cWkYV0C1Kh4Ehrl71XfH2CtMBNfoZNC5fNzKFnorftRviiEsoP0aIEaT4zgC9/NWJVNPaSWlbjXT 4452A/Ke8MYEj4i5B+CotMlC1C85o3pj2m1fsdpcFXlkejNTaP27rPSVF3irCFpsJkb6s/KDXhgJm ZcHLJxYQ==; Original-Received: from [76.77.182.20] (port=59422 helo=Takver4) by host2007.hostmonster.com with esmtpsa (TLS1.2) tls TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (Exim 4.93) (envelope-from ) id 1kpFf3-000sDO-Hr; Tue, 15 Dec 2020 12:07:01 -0700 In-Reply-To: (=?utf-8?Q?=22Cl=C3=A9ment?= Pit-Claudel"'s message of "Tue, 15 Dec 2020 01:24:54 -0500") X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - host2007.hostmonster.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - gnu.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - stephe-leake.org X-BWhitelist: no X-Source-IP: 76.77.182.20 X-Source-L: No X-Exim-ID: 1kpFf3-000sDO-Hr X-Source-Sender: (Takver4) [76.77.182.20]:59422 X-Source-Auth: stephen_leake@stephe-leake.org X-Email-Count: 7 X-Source-Cap: c3RlcGhlbGU7c3RlcGhlbGU7aG9zdDIwMDcuaG9zdG1vbnN0ZXIuY29t X-Local-Domain: yes Received-SPF: neutral client-ip=192.185.145.3; envelope-from=stephen_leake@stephe-leake.org; helo=gateway30.websitewelcome.com X-Spam_score_int: -8 X-Spam_score: -0.9 X-Spam_bar: / X-Spam_report: (-0.9 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_INVALID=0.1, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H4=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_NEUTRAL=0.779 autolearn=no autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:260911 Archived-At: Cl=C3=A9ment Pit-Claudel writes: > On 12/15/20 12:30 AM, Lars Ingebrigtsen wrote: >> Of 7.3K respondents, 5K disable toolbars, which is more than two >> thirds. So perhaps toolbars should default to off? I know toolbars >> were all the rage in the 90s, but that's apparently not the case now. >>=20 >> Opinions? > > 2=C2=A2: keep them, though with prettier icons. It's trivial to disable > them, but it's not trivial to discover that they exist if they are > disabled by default. +1 =20 > (FWIW, this is a general philosophy: I think Emacs should ship with a > lot more stuff enabled by default, maybe with a spartan-mode to revert > to the current defaults.) That works for me as well. Lots of eye candy by default to seduce new users, followed by easy ways to configure the UI for higher productivity (which is why I turn off the toolbar; keystrokes are more efficient than mouse movements, and this gives more screen area for text). --=20 -- Stephe