From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: [PATCH] Project out of sources compilation Date: Thu, 04 Apr 2024 08:07:09 +0300 Message-ID: <86edbl90n6.fsf@gnu.org> References: <4wwljrdnra3bsloehioa46y24ozxajajmvf2elvskxxq3mhtg2.ref@pyv2z5snot6h> <4wwljrdnra3bsloehioa46y24ozxajajmvf2elvskxxq3mhtg2@pyv2z5snot6h> <87ttl5w0mr.fsf@gmail.com> <1fd527fc-9643-49d2-8fae-d7e7fd043fe1@gutov.dev> <21f05c6124d1281dcec22404d788330abe1e55c0.camel@yandex.ru> <86v84y8yaj.fsf@gnu.org> <122ab8a44f7c4eacd480975246d66ef3a1060d38.camel@yandex.ru> <86sf028rjo.fsf@gnu.org> <86r0fm8n3j.fsf@gnu.org> <21199757e8643ad0f4924b442c0371ae24afe84e.camel@yandex.ru> <86jzle8fx5.fsf@gnu.org> <99b6071c01ae83b9cdc418c467a7e95b6940b5c5.camel@yandex.ru> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="11836"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: rms@gnu.org, spacibba@aol.com, dmitry@gutov.dev, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Konstantin Kharlamov Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Thu Apr 04 07:08:20 2024 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1rsFKl-0002oM-Hd for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Thu, 04 Apr 2024 07:08:19 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1rsFJr-0003jU-Ao; Thu, 04 Apr 2024 01:07:23 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1rsFJp-0003jJ-QY for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 04 Apr 2024 01:07:21 -0400 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1rsFJn-0004fF-Sr; Thu, 04 Apr 2024 01:07:19 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=MIME-version:References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From: Date; bh=wxC6r0NLeabIBYRd1SbKKIxCkZomMy5oU/xxOERr5zo=; b=ZgtyB1JTCyYJhSBi7BHe OVILWqNqACcNJN9dEARL+11sYxzmKlL/As1PdkpiMNiJ4TF+JeEH0pwJbJ4PWjm6uJpDZVB0W8WMG KqR/lHowaSle1nbFZ0MSSAqrR/iWzpNIQOe6NWyD5A3nPD6nQlRFRRI8G1eAOHTV7UdXCmMUwyJXD ziDQ+1/6aJOjyLCORm2rrJ2J3jdJW+yfE6Au04/8e9ujpTWJn9O/FGZb2+rUAS7JFjtSwpez0F2Pd V/MrAjiJ/YDM1bMpBLusHZDvuPJ0DNbqdX+I6ViLKg9mH9MKCXZEIedmG1uUro4J2Lb6E9zY7r+Cl zs9nBPLWdbFTMw==; In-Reply-To: <99b6071c01ae83b9cdc418c467a7e95b6940b5c5.camel@yandex.ru> (message from Konstantin Kharlamov on Wed, 03 Apr 2024 22:08:16 +0300) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:317512 Archived-At: > From: Konstantin Kharlamov > Cc: rms@gnu.org, spacibba@aol.com, dmitry@gutov.dev, emacs-devel@gnu.org > Date: Wed, 03 Apr 2024 22:08:16 +0300 > > On Wed, 2024-04-03 at 21:22 +0300, Eli Zaretskii wrote: > > > From: Konstantin Kharlamov > > > Cc: rms@gnu.org, spacibba@aol.com, dmitry@gutov.dev, > > > emacs-devel@gnu.org > > > Date: Wed, 03 Apr 2024 20:27:09 +0300 > > > > > > I hope now you understand why I'm saying Emacs doesn't fully > > > support it 😊 > > > > I still think you are mistaken.  What you call "out of tree build" is > > not what is generally meant by that. > > Okay, what do you consider meant by that? In general, a build outside of the tree where a release tarball has been unpacked. At the very least, a build _after_ autogen.sh (or a similar "bootstrap" script) was run. Note that the rules which produce *.elc files do deposit them in the build tree, not in the source tree, btw. AFAIR, the only Lisp files produced by a build from Git that are deposited in the source tree are those built by admin/grammars/Makefile. If someone wants to modify that Makefile to produce the *.el files in the build tree, I won't object, but rejecting the Emacs out-of-tree build procedure because we currently put them in the source tree is absurd, IMNSHO, since *.el files are certainly portable and not configuration- or platform-dependent. Putting platform-independent generated files in the source tree has the advantage of making the subsequent builds faster, sometimes significantly faster. > > Bootstrapping a repository > > invariably causes some "build artifacts" to be deposed in the source > > tree > > Sure, that's unfortunately how autotools work. See above: not just autotools. And anyway, as long as the Emacs build uses autotools, we can only support out-of-tree builds in the style supported by autotools. > On the upside though, it is rare for these files to cause problems. > Which can't be said about .elc ones. See above: the *.elc files are not relevant here. > > , and the more the project makes a point of not having generated > > files in the repository, the more artifacts are needed in the source > > tree before you can start building out of tree.   > > Citation needed 😄 You asked me previously for examples of projects > that do not generate any files in the tree, I provided you with that 😊 > I can certainly assure you that you don't necessarily have to generate > files "in tree". I worked with many different projects and distinct > build systems, so I have a lot of experience in that regard. Do you > have in mind some specific case that you see a problem with? Yes, look at Gawk, for example: they have many generated files in Git. Even Info files are in Git. Another example is GDB: they store the configure script in Git. > > And that is > > perfectly okay, nothing wrong about that. > > There are problems with generating code in tree, some of which I did > show to you previously. There are problems everywhere, but those are quite easy to deal with. Otherwise you wouldn't be seeing projects doing that, and doing that on purpose.