From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: An anonymous IRC user's opinion Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2024 21:01:59 +0200 Message-ID: <86cyipsp94.fsf@gnu.org> References: <865xp3w64u.fsf@gnu.org> <61171da3-7428-4572-bc13-783766a123b5@gutov.dev> <86v7x2u7rz.fsf@gnu.org> <86msidubg4.fsf@gnu.org> <867c9htwt7.fsf@gnu.org> <387887a4-ba19-485e-8805-d1aabe2058ff@gutov.dev> <86y11xsbil.fsf@gnu.org> <17465b85-430a-4e91-8b12-769b60181ada@gutov.dev> <86ses4sglw.fsf@gnu.org> <86fro4sddd.fsf@gnu.org> <6ac73c67-cb2d-48ef-8f1d-683c5335aba5@gutov.dev> <8634k4s2r2.fsf@gnu.org> <082b0388-b3a1-4523-9f9b-5ead4b110e11@gutov.dev> <86plmrtemx.fsf@gnu.org> <7aa4a684-3374-4d0f-8efc-c4df29337c5e@gutov.dev> <86cyirtahu.fsf@gnu.org> <556779b3-9308-4fd3-9050-bf9c49658cd1@gutov.dev> <864j43t8t9.fsf@gnu.org> <4cc676e8-cac5-4348-99b0-243baf74687e@gutov.dev> <8634jnt5e3.fsf@gnu.org> <4864104c-cb23-4356-ad89-2fea111db66c@gutov.dev> <86ttc2rrh8.fsf@gnu.org> Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="30156"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: johan.myreen@gmail.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Dmitry Gutov Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Wed Nov 20 20:02:49 2024 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1tDpyS-0007XY-S7 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Wed, 20 Nov 2024 20:02:49 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1tDpxm-00044n-E1; Wed, 20 Nov 2024 14:02:06 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1tDpxi-00044M-S7 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 20 Nov 2024 14:02:03 -0500 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1tDpxi-0001O3-GG; Wed, 20 Nov 2024 14:02:02 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=Ffw74LovAwTl/Bj/XuafavlPrbIaYVV36hXlMXsG2VU=; b=haZquWdw5T3l AFsNLNgiBHucR+ibVDaz/alqeoPwWTxrYoyFJnp2c1y2Qn8kDSVFUCtgZ1zMu5x+dr+wTxlsyEhIs h+MmQrzV2s4huxwZ4VGtLjOCY+6erGbziMqYwDRlf4Bm74VAYc9JtyVzHIhahIwuhUx0ydrhbcUN1 g0NIdI8wJI287ZKnZo/LKg18VXt/sXgn3zyqI8R1lh7wgZymznas+hq8/iyUb02aQuCe9y6vyWTIF 03GKSULOciBIwUtvuq4qM8GHRUjspEVrA1pYC4QCBdZf6FZpNU9InsvP/93no/PLDFWCDpHWKQZEe n3NmdWdYuc31V3M4nK8kYw==; In-Reply-To: (message from Dmitry Gutov on Wed, 20 Nov 2024 20:38:05 +0200) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:325529 Archived-At: > Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2024 20:38:05 +0200 > Cc: johan.myreen@gmail.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org > From: Dmitry Gutov > > On 20/11/2024 14:59, Eli Zaretskii wrote: > >>> Maybe so, but that is not always easy nor user-friendly: getting the > >>> regexps right is not trivial, many people make mistakes. > >> > >> Even if that's true, I'm not sure what workflow you have in mind. > > > > Someone mentioned the possibility that Emacs could propose using some > > mode when user visits a file, AFAIR. So the workflow would be to ask > > the user whether she wants to turn on mode FOO in files like this one, > > and if the answer is YES, modify auto-mode-alist accordingly. > > And the init script. Or .custom.el. Keeping in mind that that value > might be modified somewhere else during startup, I guess. That's basic customization for you, yes. > Philip's branch is the closest to that idea. Would you be comfortable to > replace the current setup with it? > > The result can be that all ts modes are disabled by default, but when > visiting a file extension that is currently associated with > fundamental-mode, but we have a alternative mode available, we'd offer > to the user to "install" that. For built-in modes, it would mean a > corresponding major-mode-remap-alist or auto-mode-alist customization. This is okay as an opt-in feature, but it cannot be the only way for users to tell Emacs they prefer one or more TS-based modes. For starters, some people might be annoyed by these suggestions, and might prefer more proactive ways of enabling those modes. > I'm fine with that idea, but it'd seem like a change in paradigm. Yes, indeed. So I think it has to be an optional feature, and we should offer more "direct" ways for expressing such preferences. > >> My > >> goal here is to fix the problem of ts modes installing themselves into > >> auto-mode-alist (and major-mode-remap-defaults) haphazardly, with > >> associated problems like https://debbugs.gnu.org/74339#38, for example. > > > > We all want to find a better solution, the challenge is to find one. > > If a solution is presented that solves the scenarios that the current > one does, while avoiding some existing problems, it should be considered > a win. Even if it doesn't include some additional nice-to-haves. I'm more worried by the UI and the UX of such solutions. Other than that, I agree that avoiding at least some of the current problems is progress. > >> and not a replacement for the current setup. > > > > What current setup? > > Please look at the patch in > https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-devel/2024-11/msg00515.html, > the current setup is on the lines being removed, and the proposed one is > on the lines being added. Then I don't understand why you say modifying auto-mode-alist is not a replacement. That's what we did in Emacs 29, just less cleanly.