From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Tim Cross Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Make peg.el a built-in library? 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[220.235.181.183]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id c6-20020a17090a4d0600b002135a57029dsm6575453pjg.29.2022.11.08.14.28.18 for (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Tue, 08 Nov 2022 14:28:19 -0800 (PST) In-reply-to: <871qqd1bea.fsf@ericabrahamsen.net> Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2607:f8b0:4864:20::1032; envelope-from=theophilusx@gmail.com; helo=mail-pj1-x1032.google.com X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:299372 Archived-At: Eric Abrahamsen writes: > writes: > >> On Tue, Nov 08, 2022 at 08:10:55AM -0800, Eric Abrahamsen wrote: >>> Stefan Monnier writes: >>> >>> >> And that's about the only hint you get. I was trying to parse a >>> >> multiword name like >>> >> >>> >> Eric Edwin Abrahamsen >>> > >>> > Side note: the division between "given name" a "family name" is not >>> > a universal property [...] >> >>> Oh, I've gone down all the rabbit holes... >> >> ;-D >> >> And this all because a small bunch of PEGs.., > > Oh the rabbit holes started as soon as I started EBDB! Personal > information is complicated -- I won't claim it's as bad as timezones and > calendars, but it's pretty messy... Yes, a definite mine field. I worked in the identity management space for a few years and this was a constant challenge. As Stefan noted, there is nothing intrinsic about the name which tells you what case the letters should have, the relationship between first/last name, cultural differences - some locales don't have anything which corresponds to first/last and some vary the order depending on the context or have different names depending on the level of perceived formality etc. To make it even more difficult, oddly enough, names are very personal and people get upset when you get it wrong. Then you can add in things like title e.g. Mr, Mrs, Ms etc and you open the whole gender identity issue. Our general solution at the time was two fold - As far as possible, allow the user to specify how they wanted to be addressed or how their name was to be displayed 'on-line'. This may require formal and informal versions - Train/educate staff and developers to avoid unnecessary use of names, title etc. We also tried to avoid using culturally bias terms like 'surname' or even 'first name' 'last name' as this simply doesn't map to anything consistent for some locations. Where I found the wheels often dropped off was when the legal department got involved. My experience was they were the least culturally aware area in the organisation. Not only did they often fail to recognise external cultural differences, they were also slow to acknowledge internal cultural evolution.