From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Akira Kyle Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Rethinking the design of xwidgets Date: Wed, 14 Oct 2020 15:46:49 -0600 Message-ID: <868sc8bhva.fsf@akirakyle.com> References: <864kmzupp0.fsf@akirakyle.com> <835z7e2ouj.fsf@gnu.org> <86v9fet5sg.fsf@akirakyle.com> <87pn5kehlz.fsf@posteo.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="21862"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: mu4e 1.4.13; emacs 28.0.50 Cc: Eli Zaretskii , emacs-devel@gnu.org To: "Mingde (Matthew) Zeng" Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Wed Oct 14 23:48:39 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1kSodS-0005aE-NG for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Wed, 14 Oct 2020 23:48:38 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:36312 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kSodR-0008TG-M7 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Wed, 14 Oct 2020 17:48:37 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:42684) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kSobm-0007z9-B3 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 14 Oct 2020 17:46:54 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-io1-f54.google.com ([209.85.166.54]:45756) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kSobk-0003Co-M5; Wed, 14 Oct 2020 17:46:53 -0400 Original-Received: by mail-io1-f54.google.com with SMTP id n6so1296572ioc.12; Wed, 14 Oct 2020 14:46:51 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:references:user-agent:from:to:cc:subject :in-reply-to:date:message-id:mime-version; bh=cBR299lyoAHjbxFezTh5EctpBaRzI1KY+ZiPQg8Sc78=; b=e+weWuPctPmcxSrQmOgpUq7y88sQjyFICL1beME5Ktt+7NtpR3vgzkH5wUtZTHWcxT 0+iNYYA7fxvqDC3poWy7tL23unOP+E54EOD0QZ8BshjPf4O9S8HTs2Nd5iie+RSpv+gX T9H7lb8IsKuPckqV21C6zIiiVfvVCcrIFyL5BvO2aG99tD5DQhwR6EU16LHZUj3sTy4T l0AYjjy/+SVi8bRbtQ15bk/JiaVpEHqn8QrQMFNse2Whjc2Et71RZufvYS84H6FhnPe+ W6xYyk8ciV06sMIODdBHJR9c6vcLMeDcKjfpy5hhPTkmrfRAWv1U1y32KNTWNqzKCZno OcBA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM530SU5ObJrYn757YTvrKO+yZWE3si+SxuE1b716btiTQkT9mQCpp e65JNrb6cTYKq26QqtQyKZqPgsMo4Hi1gvWX X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJx4T2fCkkWPL4menN/snI4hwz2nEA4ez0ululDv8D2GLInHAcwcvaaP/p/1p1Aeky92qGBc1Q== X-Received: by 2002:a6b:b983:: with SMTP id j125mr1033711iof.201.1602712010849; Wed, 14 Oct 2020 14:46:50 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from lore ([2601:281:8080:45f0:e5a8:7c4f:7ebe:af4]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id c2sm670064ioc.29.2020.10.14.14.46.49 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Wed, 14 Oct 2020 14:46:50 -0700 (PDT) In-reply-to: <87pn5kehlz.fsf@posteo.net> Received-SPF: pass client-ip=209.85.166.54; envelope-from=aikokyle@gmail.com; helo=mail-io1-f54.google.com X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: First seen = 2020/10/14 17:46:51 X-ACL-Warn: Detected OS = Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] [fuzzy] X-Spam_score_int: -13 X-Spam_score: -1.4 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.4 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN=0.249, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.249, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=no autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:257687 Archived-At: On Wed, Oct 14, 2020 at 01:24 PM, Mingde (Matthew) Zeng wrote: > You might've already tried it (since you mentioned in the main > thread), but I still want to point out that currently the Emacs > Application Framework's PDF-viewer [1] is probably your go-to > choice (for now) for best PDF rendering in emacs, as it uses > muPDF in the shadow. Unfortunately it doesn't seem like it doesn't currently support setting slices, inverting the pdf colors, or synctex. > As the maintainer of the EAF project, I have to point out that > the original motivation for the existence of EAF was to enhance > Emacs browser rendering, pdf rendering, and video rendering > capabilites. The QGraphicsView was designed to span over the > entire buffer to make it more emacsy, to fit the "one buffer, > one major mode" idea. The choice was obvious when using EAF to > view modern webpages, PDF, or videos. However EAF _doesn't have > to_ stay this way, it is completely viable to embed the > QGraphicsView inside a buffer. It's not clear to me how one would go about doing that? There's the fact that Qt is C++ based and that AFAIU it relies on the window manager to behave properly in order to be placed in the right place. > I don't completely understand your opinion on why EAF is not > very emacsy, I can see why it's not lispsy, but EAF is > keyboard-oriented, highly extensible and customizable. It just > didn't improve Emacs itself but decided to utilize other free > software. The author of EAF, manateelazycat, thought that it > would take quite a long time for Emacs to improve its graphical > capabilites of rendering webpages or videos to the point of > other modern software dedicated for these functionalities, and > emacs-devel should prioritize on making Emacs a better > text-based editing environment, then the EAF's job is simply > extending Emacs to the world of modern graphics. IMO the majority of what makes Emacs emacsy is being lispy, not necessarily that its keyboard-oriented. But yes I grant that EAF looks to be quite extensible. I'm not a huge fan of Qt or C++ which has caused me to shy away from EAF. Also correct me if wrong, but it doesn't look like EAF has a path forward to running on wayland. > Nevertheless, I'm very interested to see how this xwidgets idea > evolves. Thanks, I really hope it ends up going somewhere.