From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: discoverability, better defaults and which-key in Emacs Date: Fri, 02 Feb 2024 08:31:58 +0200 Message-ID: <868r43z89t.fsf@gnu.org> References: <874jetaxri.fsf@jeremybryant.net> <86fryc1vsh.fsf@gnu.org> Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="13680"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: jb@jeremybryant.net, justin@burkett.cc, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: orzodk Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Fri Feb 02 07:32:57 2024 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1rVn6f-0003La-0Y for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Fri, 02 Feb 2024 07:32:57 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1rVn5n-0008JQ-OI; Fri, 02 Feb 2024 01:32:03 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1rVn5k-0008J8-Vd for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 02 Feb 2024 01:32:00 -0500 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1rVn5k-0004fX-8y; Fri, 02 Feb 2024 01:32:00 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=IY2UJWZcIi1glJBBoLI9IbVLfSAXVtmkH+c2fBG3xWc=; b=jYlzcOcjv2X0 RN1+t8c51IAOTgN1bYxYD8vUP5eOFlDZssRaxJ4pzIxnEIReHkhir9PAt5mJ2jJ47ad1aq4ZyNYU8 Pmt3JGZVgjb+pFrBg3Sc+BmBWkCtJO3AYI5edTvQBXSB/rKFvpwaGayJqU2KbW32ygiyp9y5Q7MuE zmOL9GQKSOBkgS2KmV2Tqo/smYLORxuTh65DXnY7dBxB3sFWxddMJWGxxTOP2cH3fs1EAaj1ylizM Vo7Pw7+fQVEq4SKh3TSYeA0TApWj9nwogdjOiWAu6nWo3xZBT7J3EJkuKNJp3HbbYfN7YB/b4Mnhy z6jmgS2YcQRLisvkylHgKA==; In-Reply-To: (message from orzodk on Thu, 01 Feb 2024 14:17:12 -0700) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:315736 Archived-At: > From: orzodk > Cc: Jeremy Bryant , justin@burkett.cc, > emacs-devel@gnu.org > Date: Thu, 01 Feb 2024 14:17:12 -0700 > > Eli Zaretskii writes: > > >> Here is a suggestion - include which-key in core and potentially enable > >> by for new users. > > > > How do we detect "new users"? > > As a new user, I ran through help-with-tutorial early on. Maybe adding a > note or suggestion somewhere there is good enough. That's unreliable. Users read the tutorial a small number of times, and a note buried inside it somewhere will go unnoticed or will be forgotten. And what about new users who bypass the tutorial completely? In any case, the suggestion to which I responded was to _enable_ which-keys for such users, not just to tell them the feature exists. If we are going to enable which-keys for some class of users, it is IMO very important to be able to identify them with almost no false positives, because otherwise the enabled feature might annoy users who don't expect these popups.