From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Writting Greek in Emacs Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2024 08:55:07 +0300 Message-ID: <867cb698ec.fsf@gnu.org> References: <87frpvk8l9.fsf@thanosapollo.org> <86ikur8vku.fsf@gnu.org> <878qvnk3j4.fsf@thanosapollo.org> <86ed5f8ugc.fsf@gnu.org> <875xqrk20g.fsf@thanosapollo.org> <86a5g38qkk.fsf@gnu.org> <87bk0jbh6t.fsf@thanosapollo.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="14156"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Thanos Apollo Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Fri Sep 20 07:56:05 2024 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1srWce-0003Tw-Eb for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Fri, 20 Sep 2024 07:56:04 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1srWbq-0007SH-E3; Fri, 20 Sep 2024 01:55:14 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1srWbn-0007R0-Bl for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 20 Sep 2024 01:55:11 -0400 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1srWbm-0001VB-UK; Fri, 20 Sep 2024 01:55:10 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=MIME-version:References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From: Date; bh=2x6c/H5KeGonK7xufoxzLXR/o+NnWrHeVqhEKrDxCQE=; b=JAS7y4sbzQzCTFQBiTQB /Zem0U5x8BZ1oeWh8p9Q2qSv/zO93E8+adxMmtZuKOZYOmL9qDDVTWu835oJJwLz7aJIe2+NAO/F0 /0Jfqr31YWy84MIQJABBa2KjX9bnXv4zALXthg0hbgRKYe8MGjU6vpicWf7gKhZPl+J1CLABEdvQm AZZfvxJCV3eiaTLWWqjOc6l4+spO7JDcLhqqyNzFokDjDIrcMZORH6i6PfwOaxNKbrYEeFBAMWK0u zeQwX0iel4SwcpdQi74vHKaHWgEYfwPRzAe4hHIxhEm5hlIshOjGS1htcjsnYIIO6ndMT9fiZHdqJ JL8nUdpH/NV/yg==; In-Reply-To: <87bk0jbh6t.fsf@thanosapollo.org> (message from Thanos Apollo on Thu, 19 Sep 2024 22:02:18 +0300) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:323808 Archived-At: > From: Thanos Apollo > Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org > Date: Thu, 19 Sep 2024 22:02:18 +0300 > > Eli Zaretskii writes: > > >> > >> έ́́́́́́́́́́́́́́́́́́́́́́ > > > > Which problems do you see here? > > It's not possible to stack accents of the same type in Greek. There are > many grammatical rules that are ignored in most input methods that I've > checkout out, such as using specific accents in non vowels. But that is a problem for the user who is typing the sequence to solve. Emacs allows users to type such sequences even if they are disallowed by the script or language rules. An input method can decide not to support that or make it hard or impossible to type, but I can always work around that by typing the character code directly, e.g., using "C-x 8 RET". And if I do, Emacs should obey. For example, one situation where one could want to type such "forbidden" sequences is to document that they are forbidden. > There are specific rules that should be followed on which accents are > used. Depending on the structure of the word & sentence, e.g a greek > input method should not allow to have a "tonos (΄)" in a non-vowel. Again, it would be hard for an input method to disallow some sequence. The most it can do is not to provide pre-prepared sequences for such accented characters. But as soon as you allow to type the tonos, the user can type it any number of times anywhere. And even if the input method itself doesn't provide a way to type the tonos, the user could type it directly. > A greek-polytonic input method should follow the keybindings that are > already used in greek polytonic keyboards & only allow certain accents > depending on the character. There's no argument about that. My point is that users have more ways of typing characters than a single input method provides, and therefore they can break the rules of any input method or language quite easily. And that is okay, from where I stand: the correctness of the text typed by users is the responsibility of those users, not of Emacs.