From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Proposal: new default bindings for winner and windmove Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2024 18:43:48 +0300 Message-ID: <864j9f90az.fsf@gnu.org> References: <7133BE83-064B-43A4-A193-61376605222C@dancol.org> <055E6E92-6971-409E-A106-7E0C64FEF856@dancol.org> <87bk3r22x5.fsf@yahoo.com> <746FE961-37C5-4387-8274-7D90908EE2D6@dancol.org> <8734p3219c.fsf@yahoo.com> <867cefeo1w.fsf@gnu.org> <8734p03e94.fsf@jeremybryant.net> <867cec9ccl.fsf@gnu.org> <877D0EA4-CAC1-4FA3-8102-8AC7446AFAED@dancol.org> <87msn7x058.fsf@yahoo.com> Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="13820"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: dancol@dancol.org, acm@muc.de, jb@jeremybryant.net, stefankangas@gmail.com, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Po Lu Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Wed Jun 26 17:44:22 2024 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1sMUom-0003Nr-W4 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Wed, 26 Jun 2024 17:44:21 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1sMUoV-0004Tz-SV; Wed, 26 Jun 2024 11:44:04 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1sMUoR-0004Sa-H1 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 26 Jun 2024 11:43:59 -0400 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1sMUoO-00083A-Ex; Wed, 26 Jun 2024 11:43:56 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=YNPolWL2G3SJYFhm1WR4BbCHkk5uXL62O7CtxEj1FzU=; b=G099qVVpVHwM pNe8ZAIglo4arsTXyvN6x0CjNL69CRfYPG8H6xtDrPe7vZGa9HCIFMIychYcJy5gN2OpJRUONNCVr YzoUyzgyFNyJa3GWuvKafg44XKFHPYcH1212Den+vUS2GSPxZ6Pl5PLf7RHA9nJFOhZvz67jB7mY4 FGRDsLM6dCuEQt1ZeRQ2Bg2R3KpGyZ5kk7b5S+vwKLZr4K47YUwV3usuFbit0fAreOrGyoRfRF26d elkf2fD5dSoP61QqHWoA08nuM7DNjH1d8lRjhSxq6LBOmygQApUOBs/nrQ0Hg7G1BSxzRg8db3m72 3M3cuRt7iTd7P+AXNb6D5Q==; In-Reply-To: <87msn7x058.fsf@yahoo.com> (message from Po Lu on Wed, 26 Jun 2024 22:13:23 +0800) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:320718 Archived-At: > From: Po Lu > Cc: Alan Mackenzie , Eli Zaretskii , Jeremy > Bryant , stefankangas@gmail.com, > monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, emacs-devel@gnu.org > Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2024 22:13:23 +0800 > > Daniel Colascione writes: > > > There is no "waste". We've gone over this at length. People who want > > to bind these keys can bind them still. Nobody is hurt by default > > bindings being present, and all the arguments I've seen against these > > bindings are also arguments against having default bindings at all. > > [...] > > > There's no need to augment the binding function with a new > > parameter. Anyone who can use the new parameter can just bind the keys > > directly. The point is that out of the box Emacs should be useful and > > useable, that the lack of default bindings for windmove makes it less > > so, and that there's little downside to adding these bindings. > > "I was not convinced by you, and therefore you must all agree with ME." > > > Because it's useful to navigate windows positionally as well as > > temporally. Other-window often has unpredictable effects and > > navigating with windmove DWIM. > > Most users will for this purpose use the mouse, if there is really such > a number of windows that navigating with other-window is impractical. > > I'm disposed to say that this situation seldom appears in practice, or > we should have received proposals to grant windmove default keybindings > much earlier. And don't let's be given a lecture as to the inherent > incompatibility of the mouse with Emacs's ethos or some such. Didn't I ask not to reiterate the opinions that were already heard, and heard abundantly? I heard you the first time (and the second, and the third, and...), and I understand very well that you are opposed to this change. Why keep saying it time and again, when doing so doesn't add any useful information to the discussion?