From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: as for Calc and the math library Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2024 08:47:15 +0300 Message-ID: <864j7l6mu4.fsf@gnu.org> References: <864j7qhup6.fsf@gnu.org> <87a5hi0yts.fsf@valhala.localdomain> <86y152ge0b.fsf@gnu.org> <86jzgjfwqp.fsf@gnu.org> <87sev78arx.fsf@gmail.com> <86le0z89u1.fsf@gnu.org> <87o75v87n1.fsf@gmail.com> <86frr786k7.fsf@gnu.org> <861q2q8e18.fsf@gnu.org> Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="22421"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: suhailsingh247@gmail.com, gerd.moellmann@gmail.com, nicolas@n16f.net, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: arthur miller Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Fri Aug 16 07:48:38 2024 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1seppF-0005f4-IU for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Fri, 16 Aug 2024 07:48:37 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1sepoV-0007zF-KK; Fri, 16 Aug 2024 01:47:51 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1sepny-0007pk-2u for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 16 Aug 2024 01:47:49 -0400 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1sepnx-00083y-JV; Fri, 16 Aug 2024 01:47:17 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=nRnTaCWg4qIUzbldfJgCTMXTLSkuuReTrhqr+jgv1kM=; b=GHeHyfnLa7xB DfyWZrZqmVdbViMHG2SFmVkQxHggF2lxKy5IHxDwvZ/aMjW0YMkxBMsS7kik+RuZLBgd+3F6uaEUZ 6kWKUdYI6JggblO5/02In0nASfErCSdgVkcCWHTw+fwtdGWSzOjytJl/6boVUxPJPj/sqwbwhT5io mirj0V79MMNGxjAFgr0T3nJCZoLe8aO0GOdAmzmzGJUvap1LO7jD0gBYSkrregJbxrbrZLsu8rQ4+ MuTp+GLhZljKjJ1QbY+vAjUJXReEXIcgV3Xp5YckwkH+K/EwwWAMO776NBVx0+NgP4fTcrh20DkIt Y6a5o6twFBX4Dn/ohzjQAg==; In-Reply-To: (message from arthur miller on Thu, 15 Aug 2024 20:09:56 +0000) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:322795 Archived-At: > From: arthur miller > CC: "suhailsingh247@gmail.com" , > "gerd.moellmann@gmail.com" , "nicolas@n16f.net" > , "emacs-devel@gnu.org" > Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2024 20:09:56 +0000 > > >No. What we need is the declaration _by_the_library_ being loaded > >that it complies. It is not an agreement between Emacs and the > >library, it's a _requirement_ on our part that only the library itself > >can fulfill. > > I have seen your previous answers to others, and I do understand the point you > make, but I think the argument fails because a module can be just a proxy to a > non-free library. A module that declares GPL compatibility and loads non-free library is either lying or (if the library is distributed with the module, as I'd expect) in clear violation of the GPL. > >expect _us_ to do it for them, or make it easier for them to do it? > > No, of course I don't expect that from you. My point was (is?) that it is a > trade-off between convinience for Emacs users who would use it as intendended, > only with free software, vs the inconvience it causes. Yes, it's a trade-off. The GNU Project decided where to take this trade-off, and I promised to uphold that policy. So can we please stop this futile discussion, which just went one more circle? > If you look at some other projects which are more interesting than Emacs to use > as front-ends for non-free software, do we see influx of companies misusing > them? I am thinking of Gtk, KDE/Gnome libs and Libre/OpenOffice for example. All > of those projects could be used to plug-in proprietary software, yet, there are > not so many cases, if any? Even Qt which comes as a dual licensed does not seem > to be misused that way. Perhaps I am just uninformed? > > You have mentioned llvm, but I am not familiar enough with them. As I understand > they are financied by Apple, Nvidia and few other big tech companies with > explicit goal to have an alternative to GCC just for the more permissive > licensing. Once again, please take these off-topic discussions elsewhere. > I said it in the beginning: sometimes it is useful to revisit policies > when circumstancies have changed. You are talking to the wrong guy about revisiting policies. As already explained more than once.