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From: David Kastrup <dak@gnu.org>
To: storm@cua.dk (Kim F. Storm)
Cc: larsi@gnus.org, rms@gnu.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org
Subject: Re: New start up splash screen annoyance...
Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2007 17:34:53 +0200	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <861wcw3s2q.fsf@lola.quinscape.zz> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <87lkb4t3wv.fsf@kfs-lx.testafd.dk> (Kim F. Storm's message of "Tue\, 18 Sep 2007 17\:00\:00 +0200")

storm@cua.dk (Kim F. Storm) writes:

> I still don't see why we cannot simply output a (possibly rather
> verbose) message in the echo area when emacs is started with a file
> name arg.  
>
> Such a message disappears automatically on the first key-press, so
> even though some users may still find it annoying, it doesn't get in
> the way of editing the file.

It would likely need to be somewhat more persistent: I know that
Debian Emacsen will usually output messages when loading additionally
installed Emacs packages which would likely clear out the echo area
message.  But maybe there is a point in the load order where we can
place the message in a manner where it will persist reasonably well.

In case this is not reliable, I had proposed two different ways of
working around this (which both more or less got lost in the heat).

a) use an idle hook (triggered on 5 seconds of idleness) that will
replace the echo area message with the pointer as long as fewer than
30 seconds have passed (that would presumably help against autoload
messages and/or garbage-collect messages and/or autosave messages).

b) put a tooltip overlay for 30 seconds over the whole buffer that
ends up being displayed, or something equivalent.

Tooltips are designed to be displayed in a manner that does not
obstruct editing, so it might make sense to use the user interface
intelligence (and developer fallout) that already went into promoting
information without annoyance.

In either case, we'll need a handy shortcut for the About screen
(which is not yet there), and f1 C-a seems reasonable.

So to get a reliable non-obtrusive pointer to the splash screen for
the case of starting with a filename, there is certainly some code to
be written and tested.  Discussing this proves to be hard at the
moment.

-- 
David Kastrup

  reply	other threads:[~2007-09-18 15:34 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 295+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2007-09-09 13:56 New start up splash screen annoyance Sascha Wilde
2007-09-09 14:40 ` Leo
2007-09-09 17:32 ` Mathias Dahl
2007-09-09 20:07 ` Richard Stallman
2007-09-09 21:20   ` Chong Yidong
2007-09-09 23:52     ` Juri Linkov
2007-09-10 16:53       ` Richard Stallman
2007-09-10 17:00         ` Chong Yidong
2007-09-10 18:19           ` Leo
2007-09-11 20:31             ` Richard Stallman
2007-09-11 21:33               ` David Kastrup
2007-09-11 22:59                 ` Juri Linkov
2007-09-10 17:28         ` David Kastrup
2007-09-11 20:31           ` Richard Stallman
2007-09-11 20:57             ` Chong Yidong
2007-09-12  2:48               ` Folding emacsclient into emacs (was: New start up splash screen annoyance...) Bill Wohler
2007-09-12  5:44                 ` Folding emacsclient into emacs David Kastrup
2007-09-12  5:57                   ` Bill Wohler
2007-09-12  7:06                     ` dhruva
2007-09-12  7:55                       ` David Kastrup
2007-09-13  9:00                       ` Eli Zaretskii
2007-09-13 11:36                         ` Michael Albinus
2007-09-13  8:28                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2007-09-12  7:17                   ` Tramp (was: Folding emacsclient into emacs) Bill Wohler
2007-09-12  8:03                     ` Tramp David Kastrup
2007-09-12  8:17                     ` Tramp Michael Albinus
2007-09-12 20:20                   ` Folding emacsclient into emacs Tom Tromey
2007-09-12 20:48                     ` Leo
2007-09-13  6:10                     ` Jan Djärv
2007-09-12 11:17                 ` Folding emacsclient into emacs (was: New start up splash screen annoyance...) Robert J. Chassell
2007-09-12 11:25                 ` Robert J. Chassell
2007-09-12 11:37                   ` David Kastrup
2007-09-12 15:08                   ` Folding emacsclient into emacs Bill Wohler
2007-09-12 15:15                   ` Chong Yidong
2007-09-12 23:36                     ` Robert J. Chassell
2007-09-12 18:52                   ` Folding emacsclient into emacs (was: New start up splash screen annoyance...) Richard Stallman
2007-09-12 19:08                     ` Folding emacsclient into emacs David Kastrup
2007-09-13  7:30                       ` Eli Zaretskii
2007-09-13  7:45                         ` David Kastrup
2007-09-13  7:51                           ` Eli Zaretskii
2007-09-13  7:59                             ` David Kastrup
2007-09-13  8:54                               ` Eli Zaretskii
2007-09-13  9:04                                 ` David Kastrup
2007-09-13 11:39                                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2007-09-14  7:05                       ` Richard Stallman
2007-09-14  8:22                         ` David Kastrup
2007-09-15  2:09                           ` Richard Stallman
2007-09-15  5:56                             ` David Kastrup
2007-09-15 18:07                               ` Richard Stallman
2007-09-16  4:08                                 ` dhruva
2007-09-16  7:32                                   ` David Kastrup
2007-09-16 10:57                                     ` dhruva
2007-09-16 11:11                                       ` David Kastrup
2007-09-16 11:27                                   ` Robert J. Chassell
2007-09-19 23:45                                   ` Juri Linkov
2007-09-20  0:56                                     ` David Kastrup
2007-09-20  1:24                                       ` Glenn Morris
2007-09-20  8:50                                         ` Juri Linkov
2007-09-20 10:12                                           ` David Kastrup
2007-09-20 18:34                                           ` Glenn Morris
2007-09-21 12:23                                           ` Richard Stallman
2007-09-12 16:34                 ` Folding emacsclient into emacs (was: New start up splash screen annoyance...) Davis Herring
2007-09-12  7:02               ` New start up splash screen annoyance Eli Zaretskii
2007-09-12 14:07                 ` Chong Yidong
2007-09-12  9:39             ` Johannes Weiner
2007-09-12 12:36               ` Robert J. Chassell
2007-09-12 18:52               ` Richard Stallman
2007-09-13  7:23                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2007-09-13  8:21                   ` Sascha Wilde
2007-09-13  8:24                     ` Sascha Wilde
2007-09-13  8:55                       ` Eli Zaretskii
2007-09-13  8:36                   ` Kim F. Storm
2007-09-13  8:55                     ` David Kastrup
2007-09-14  7:05                   ` Richard Stallman
2007-09-14 11:12                   ` Mathias Dahl
2007-09-14 18:54                   ` Romain Francoise
2007-09-13 23:43                 ` Juri Linkov
2007-09-14  6:13                   ` David Kastrup
2007-09-14 18:43                     ` Romain Francoise
2007-09-14 20:15                     ` Bill Wohler
2007-09-14 21:14                       ` Stefan Monnier
2007-09-14 21:38                         ` Bill Wohler
2007-09-15 14:48                         ` Michael Albinus
2007-09-15 21:23                           ` Stefan Monnier
2007-09-16  5:34                           ` Richard Stallman
2007-09-14  7:40                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2007-09-15  2:09                     ` Richard Stallman
2007-09-15  8:04                   ` Richard Stallman
2007-09-15  8:18                     ` Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen
2007-09-16  5:33                       ` Richard Stallman
2007-09-16  7:25                         ` David Kastrup
2007-09-17  0:20                           ` Richard Stallman
2007-09-17  5:55                             ` David Kastrup
2007-09-17 22:24                               ` Richard Stallman
2007-09-18  5:39                                 ` David Kastrup
2007-09-18  9:30                                   ` Leo
2007-09-18 10:01                                     ` David Kastrup
2007-09-18 15:00                                   ` Kim F. Storm
2007-09-18 15:34                                     ` David Kastrup [this message]
2007-09-18 16:51                                       ` Glenn Morris
2007-09-19  3:18                                         ` Richard Stallman
2007-09-19  5:45                                           ` David Kastrup
2007-09-20 16:33                                             ` Richard Stallman
2007-09-19 13:52                                           ` Kim F. Storm
2007-09-19 14:10                                             ` David Kastrup
2007-09-19 16:33                                               ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2007-09-18 20:02                                     ` Stefan Monnier
2007-09-18 22:17                                       ` Mathias Dahl
2007-09-18 19:34                                   ` Richard Stallman
2007-09-18 21:01                                     ` David Kastrup
2007-09-18 22:08                                     ` Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen
2007-09-19 15:49                                       ` Richard Stallman
2007-09-19 23:46                                         ` Juri Linkov
2007-09-20  0:24                                           ` Leo
2007-09-21 12:23                                           ` Richard Stallman
2007-09-20 11:16                                         ` Kim F. Storm
2007-09-20 14:17                                           ` Stefan Monnier
2007-09-20 15:30                                             ` dhruva
2007-09-20 15:39                                               ` Davis Herring
2007-09-20 15:52                                                 ` Bastien
2007-09-20 15:56                                               ` David Kastrup
2007-09-20 15:49                                             ` Bastien
2007-09-21 16:21                                               ` Bastien
2007-09-21 17:42                                                 ` Drew Adams
2007-09-21 18:01                                                   ` Sean Sieger
2007-09-21 19:38                                                   ` Bastien
2007-09-21 17:46                                                 ` Davis Herring
2007-09-22 11:57                                                   ` Richard Stallman
2007-09-20 17:45                                           ` Manoj Srivastava
2007-09-20 18:35                                             ` David Kastrup
2007-09-20 19:12                                               ` Sean O'Rourke
2007-09-20 19:19                                                 ` Glenn Morris
2007-09-20 20:13                                                   ` Sean O'Rourke
2007-09-20 20:22                                                     ` Glenn Morris
2007-09-20 23:57                                                       ` Juri Linkov
2007-09-21  7:18                                                         ` David Kastrup
2007-09-21 22:34                                                           ` Richard Stallman
2007-09-22 14:11                                                             ` Juri Linkov
2007-09-22 18:40                                                               ` Eli Zaretskii
2007-09-22 18:52                                                                 ` David Kastrup
2007-09-22 19:20                                                                   ` Stefan Monnier
2007-09-22 20:03                                                                     ` Juri Linkov
2007-09-22 20:43                                                                       ` Drew Adams
2007-09-22 23:48                                                                     ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2007-09-23  0:33                                                                       ` Drew Adams
2007-09-23  5:39                                                                         ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2007-09-23  7:43                                                                           ` David Kastrup
2007-09-23 15:05                                                                             ` Richard Stallman
2007-09-23 15:20                                                                               ` David Kastrup
2007-09-24 18:19                                                                                 ` Richard Stallman
2007-09-24 22:08                                                                                   ` David Kastrup
2007-09-25 17:57                                                                                     ` Richard Stallman
2007-09-25 18:30                                                                                       ` Drew Adams
2007-09-25 18:40                                                                                         ` David Kastrup
2007-09-25 18:59                                                                                           ` Drew Adams
2007-09-25 19:25                                                                                             ` David Kastrup
2007-09-25 19:45                                                                                               ` Drew Adams
2007-09-26  0:35                                                                                           ` Kenichi Handa
2007-09-26  1:54                                                                                             ` David Kastrup
2007-09-26 14:01                                                                                             ` Stefan Monnier
2007-09-26 14:05                                                                                               ` David Kastrup
2007-09-26 15:18                                                                                                 ` Drew Adams
2007-09-26 21:56                                                                                                   ` Richard Stallman
2007-09-26 15:10                                                                                               ` Drew Adams
2007-09-25 18:47                                                                                       ` Dan Nicolaescu
2007-09-25 19:08                                                                                         ` David Kastrup
2007-09-25 20:27                                                                                       ` Juri Linkov
2007-09-23 16:43                                                                               ` Drew Adams
2007-09-24 18:19                                                                                 ` Richard Stallman
2007-09-23 22:52                                                                               ` David Reitter
2007-09-24 18:19                                                                                 ` Richard Stallman
2007-09-24 18:37                                                                                   ` Davis Herring
2007-09-24 21:14                                                                                     ` Drew Adams
2007-09-25 17:58                                                                                     ` Richard Stallman
2007-09-25 18:33                                                                                       ` David Kastrup
2007-09-25 18:38                                                                                       ` Drew Adams
2007-09-25 19:37                                                                                         ` David Reitter
2007-09-25 21:03                                                                                           ` Drew Adams
2007-09-26  7:59                                                                                             ` David Reitter
2007-09-26 14:59                                                                                               ` Drew Adams
2007-09-26 16:03                                                                                                 ` David Reitter
2007-09-26 16:15                                                                                                   ` Drew Adams
2007-09-26 16:10                                                                                                 ` echo area clicks: *Messages* David Reitter
2007-09-26 16:49                                                                                                   ` David Kastrup
2007-09-24 20:40                                                                                   ` New start up splash screen annoyance Robert J. Chassell
2007-09-25 17:57                                                                                     ` Richard Stallman
2007-09-25 18:18                                                                                       ` David Kastrup
2007-09-25  5:01                                                                                   ` Manoj Srivastava
2007-09-25 23:36                                                                                     ` Richard Stallman
2007-09-23 14:06                                                                           ` Didier Verna
2007-09-23 16:44                                                                             ` Drew Adams
2007-09-23 19:33                                                                             ` Stefan Monnier
2007-09-23 20:42                                                                               ` Drew Adams
2007-09-24  1:16                                                                                 ` Stefan Monnier
2007-09-24  2:00                                                                                   ` Drew Adams
2007-09-23 20:16                                                                             ` Juri Linkov
2007-09-24 16:59                                                                             ` Davis Herring
2007-09-24 21:25                                                                               ` Didier Verna
2007-09-23 15:05                                                                         ` Richard Stallman
2007-09-23 15:25                                                                           ` David Kastrup
2007-09-23 16:43                                                                             ` Drew Adams
2007-09-24 15:46                                                                             ` Sascha Wilde
2007-09-23 16:44                                                                           ` Drew Adams
2007-09-24 18:19                                                                             ` Richard Stallman
2007-09-26  7:03                                                                           ` Didier Verna
2007-09-26 16:29                                                                             ` mode line [X] Richard Stallman
2007-09-23 13:46                                                                       ` New start up splash screen annoyance Didier Verna
2007-09-22 20:01                                                                 ` Juri Linkov
2007-09-23  4:24                                                                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2007-09-23  7:50                                                                     ` David Kastrup
2007-09-23 11:22                                                                     ` Juri Linkov
2007-09-23 22:33                                                                       ` Kim F. Storm
2007-09-24  6:03                                                                         ` David Kastrup
2007-09-24 18:19                                                                         ` Richard Stallman
2007-09-23 15:05                                                                 ` Richard Stallman
2007-09-23 19:00                                                                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2007-09-22 18:42                                                               ` Eli Zaretskii
2007-09-22 20:07                                                                 ` Juri Linkov
2007-09-22 22:15                                                                 ` Juri Linkov
2007-09-22 22:54                                                                 ` Juri Linkov
2007-09-22 22:16                                                               ` Juri Linkov
2007-09-23 15:05                                                                 ` Richard Stallman
2007-09-23 20:17                                                                   ` Juri Linkov
2007-09-24 18:19                                                                     ` Richard Stallman
2007-09-23  9:07                                                               ` Richard Stallman
2007-09-20 20:23                                                     ` Sean O'Rourke
2007-09-20 19:28                                               ` Manoj Srivastava
2007-09-21 22:33                                                 ` Richard Stallman
2007-09-22 14:12                                                   ` Juri Linkov
2007-09-23  9:07                                                     ` Richard Stallman
2007-09-23 11:22                                                       ` Juri Linkov
2007-09-23 21:55                                                         ` Richard Stallman
2007-09-23 23:55                                                           ` Juri Linkov
2007-09-25 10:44                                                             ` Richard Stallman
2007-09-25 20:28                                                               ` Juri Linkov
2007-09-21 17:37                                         ` Mathias Megyei
2007-09-22 11:57                                           ` Richard Stallman
2007-09-19 14:59                                     ` Bill Wohler
2007-09-20 16:34                                       ` Richard Stallman
2007-09-18  8:15                                 ` Thien-Thi Nguyen
2007-09-16  9:27                         ` Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen
2007-09-17 22:03                         ` Davis Herring
2007-09-17 22:43                           ` Drew Adams
2007-09-18  5:25                             ` David Kastrup
2007-09-18  5:43                               ` dhruva
2007-09-15 10:17                     ` Mathias Megyei
2007-09-15 10:40                       ` Eli Zaretskii
2007-09-15 18:55                         ` Mathias Megyei
2007-09-15 22:10                           ` Eli Zaretskii
2007-09-17  0:20                           ` Richard Stallman
2007-09-18 21:20                             ` Mathias Megyei
2007-09-19 15:49                               ` Richard Stallman
2007-09-15 18:57                         ` Mathias Megyei
2007-09-16  4:41                         ` tomas
2007-09-16 20:15                           ` Eli Zaretskii
2007-09-16 22:12                             ` Mathias Megyei
2007-09-17  4:04                             ` tomas
2007-09-16  5:33                       ` Richard Stallman
2007-09-17 22:08                     ` Davis Herring
2007-09-13  7:52             ` Sascha Wilde
2007-09-13  8:03               ` David Kastrup
2007-09-14  7:05               ` Richard Stallman
2007-09-14  7:51                 ` Jason Rumney
2007-09-14  8:19                 ` David Kastrup
2007-09-10 16:53     ` Richard Stallman
2007-09-10 19:09       ` Chong Yidong
2007-09-10 22:07         ` Chong Yidong
2007-09-10 23:10           ` Leo
2007-09-10 23:19             ` Chong Yidong
2007-09-10 23:24               ` Leo
2007-09-12  0:40           ` Glenn Morris
2007-09-14  8:11             ` Glenn Morris
2007-09-09 21:27   ` Jason Rumney
2007-09-09 21:44     ` Drew Adams
2007-09-10  1:13     ` Richard Stallman
2007-09-09 23:48   ` Juri Linkov
2007-10-03 20:18   ` KingBolete
2007-10-04 17:27     ` Richard Stallman
2007-10-08  4:16       ` tomas
2007-10-08 19:16         ` Juri Linkov
2007-10-09 20:03           ` Richard Stallman
2007-11-10 21:27             ` Juri Linkov
2007-11-10 22:36               ` Pure space overflow in Emacs 22 (was: Re: New start up splash screen annoyance...) Sven Joachim
2007-11-10 22:43                 ` Pure space overflow in Emacs 22 Juri Linkov
2007-10-09  1:14         ` New start up splash screen annoyance Richard Stallman
2007-10-09  6:39           ` tomas
2007-10-26  5:21             ` tomas
2007-09-09 23:54 ` Juri Linkov
2007-09-10  2:33   ` Stefan Monnier
2007-09-10  5:19     ` David Kastrup
2007-09-11 20:30       ` Richard Stallman
2007-09-10 23:55     ` Richard Stallman
2007-09-11  0:45       ` Stefan Monnier
2007-09-11  5:47         ` David Kastrup
2007-09-12  8:45         ` Richard Stallman

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