From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: My resignation from Emacs development Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2024 21:47:22 +0200 Message-ID: <861pz4pdx1.fsf@gnu.org> References: Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="865"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: acorallo@gnu.org, acm@muc.de, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: "Alfred M. Szmidt" Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Thu Nov 21 20:48:09 2024 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1tED9s-000AeX-Jk for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Thu, 21 Nov 2024 20:48:08 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1tED9K-00041A-Vy; Thu, 21 Nov 2024 14:47:35 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1tED9D-0003yr-UZ for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 21 Nov 2024 14:47:28 -0500 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1tED9D-0007ZX-3x; Thu, 21 Nov 2024 14:47:27 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=FmUxX0s9FZY2O5bxBJbP/lu/0cyKs+riDIwZwJIo/0E=; b=jfTDBj3c25Rc hVx3iZOFWdPCgSBy1maxvYYcu1uo585CG1AfWfWjc8HPDps3C6LKtQ8s5g0zPGAJ0xypYFU4sF4Dr 0QXhhZwfQn4q/qmjWcCwAHo/aFViOV9pCAWWy0/t40u8uqlf1WDcKQ5Cv/An1X3h5cEpfPQz9itkS 7z16OscUv27BsWw4GRcSsj8TLdeQtc3w1qtfxjd82j80QFpZ2YKuBYN7NJ3VXXvG+SQtO9NTqGZ/8 Gob/efeuNzSsetWlgpMtnwiZx7JEJw9r+BVLSweNoIyuZ6mopnk/2DLA+e/W0HQiEiFRpmT+KPD2n Kh7idsqZ+FLKxPjvGRdx3g==; In-Reply-To: (ams@gnu.org) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:325555 Archived-At: > From: "Alfred M. Szmidt" > Cc: acm@muc.de, emacs-devel@gnu.org > Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2024 14:01:13 -0500 > > Making a better Emacs is making sure that e.g. Alan feels welcome and > happy to contribute, clearly that has failed completley. That is true, on both counts. Btw, making a better Emacs is also about making sure that e.g. Stefan Monnier (as well as anyone else) feels welcome and happy to contribute. > That you, Eli, and Stefan K hide behind "oh, we don't think there is > anything wrong, just take a break" and think it is just fine is > beyond bewildering. We don't hide. We are several people who independently came to very similar conclusions in this matter, while Alan disagreed. It's not like we conspired to make Alan unhappy. And no one said that nothing is wrong, quite the contrary. > Please take a step back (instead of quoting the GKC), and consider > what is going on currently is not working to the satisfaction of many > people, to the point of very much appreciated hackers like Alan. I don't think you have a complete view of what happened. You didn't participate in the relevant discussions, neither back in May nor now. Moreover, part of the discussion was in private email between Alan and myself, so only we two know what was said there. I assure you that every effort was made to accommodate Alan's complaints, at least on the technical level (since we are talking about bugs and how to fix them). That we failed is a fact, but it's not like we didn't try not to fail, and tried hard and for a long time. It is thus at least unfair to accuse us in dismissing this or in being insincere. However, I don't claim to be exceptionally good at this, so if someone is better and can convince Alan to stay, by all means please go ahead, and my hat's off to you if you succeed. In any case, if you are right, and "what is going on currently is not working to the satisfaction of many people", then I'd appreciate if those people voiced their concerns, so that we could at least try to improve the situation.