From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: David Kastrup Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Semi-unhelpful error message given when trying to (provide 'CUA-mode) Date: Sun, 21 May 2006 11:54:52 +0200 Message-ID: <85wtcfbt3n.fsf@lola.goethe.zz> References: <85fyj4bl8p.fsf@lola.goethe.zz> <20060520.211854.71848142.wl@gnu.org> <85lkswa29b.fsf@lola.goethe.zz> <44701B91.60606@swipnet.se> NNTP-Posting-Host: main.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1148205441 14071 80.91.229.2 (21 May 2006 09:57:21 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 21 May 2006 09:57:21 +0000 (UTC) Cc: acm@muc.de, emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sun May 21 11:57:19 2006 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by ciao.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Fhkep-0003co-Ff for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sun, 21 May 2006 11:55:31 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Fhkep-0007vg-3f for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sun, 21 May 2006 05:55:31 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1Fhked-0007vU-Cl for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 21 May 2006 05:55:19 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1Fhkec-0007vB-Ui for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 21 May 2006 05:55:19 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Fhkec-0007v7-Qf for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 21 May 2006 05:55:18 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.164] (helo=fencepost.gnu.org) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.52) id 1FhkiM-0005mQ-H7 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 21 May 2006 05:59:10 -0400 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lola.goethe.zz) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1Fhkeb-0002NO-O1; Sun, 21 May 2006 05:55:17 -0400 Original-Received: by lola.goethe.zz (Postfix, from userid 1002) id 07A6E1C27933; Sun, 21 May 2006 11:54:53 +0200 (CEST) Original-To: Jan =?iso-8859-1?Q?Dj=E4rv?= User-Agent: Gnus/5.11 (Gnus v5.11) Emacs/22.0.50 (gnu/linux) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:54937 Archived-At: Jan Dj=E4rv writes: > David Kastrup skrev: >> Werner LEMBERG writes: >> >>>>> The menu bar is stupidly displayed, yes, but there's no way to >>>>> activate its items. >>>> F10 activates them. >>> Hmm. Is there any reason why F10 under X Windows doesn't activate >>> the visible toolbar so that I can move around with the cursor keys? >>> Binding F10 to `tmm-menubar' is probably not that helpful... >> >> Maybe to accessibility dependent people? On the other hand, walking >> toolkit menus should be pretty standard for accessibility tools. >> >> In my opinion, it would make sense to offer this kind of drop-down >> menu traversal both in text mode as well as in the toolkits. I don't >> see that tmm-menubar has advantages that make it worth making it the >> default. >> >> I'd vote to add this to todo.texi. This is one part of CUA where the >> cost of accommodating it does not appear to have a negative impact >> elsewhere within Emacs. >> > > I have a patch for the X11 versions of Emacs that activates the > menubar when F10 is pressed. I think that is very common, I have not > seen any application that activates the toolbar on F10. I am trying to figure out what you _intend_ to be saying. #1 is that you mean just what you wrote, in which case I can't figure out why you are bringing the toolbar into play. #2 would be that you mean "I _don't_ think that is very common, I have not seen any application that activates the _menubar_ on F10". This may be, but we can't easily use ALT here. But if people have a way to traverse the menus by keyboard (in both X11 and tty), this goes a long way towards accommodating accustomed keyboard/GUI interaction, even though the entry is not completely what they are used to. And there might be the possibility to get something closer to ALT-activation under some circumstances, in a similar way that CUA-mode gets closer to utilizing C-x and C-c. --=20 David Kastrup, Kriemhildstr. 15, 44793 Bochum