From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: David Kastrup Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: [simon.marshall@misys.com: Font Lock on-the-fly misfontification in C++] Date: Wed, 02 Aug 2006 15:21:57 +0200 Message-ID: <85wt9ruvbe.fsf@lola.goethe.zz> References: <20060723142630.GB1433@muc.de> <20060731220419.GF1271@muc.de> <17616.29352.887502.516153@parhasard.net> <85mzanwjct.fsf@lola.goethe.zz> <17616.32316.759027.971436@parhasard.net> <85ac6nwdt7.fsf@lola.goethe.zz> <17616.40996.316155.604207@parhasard.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: main.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1154524968 20518 80.91.229.2 (2 Aug 2006 13:22:48 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 2 Aug 2006 13:22:48 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Wed Aug 02 15:22:42 2006 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by ciao.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1G8Gg0-0002Fh-E1 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Wed, 02 Aug 2006 15:22:21 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1G8Gfz-0004DR-NZ for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Wed, 02 Aug 2006 09:22:19 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1G8Gfm-0004Bj-RE for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 02 Aug 2006 09:22:06 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1G8Gfl-0004Ap-Fb for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 02 Aug 2006 09:22:05 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1G8Gfl-0004Am-AX for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 02 Aug 2006 09:22:05 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.164] (helo=fencepost.gnu.org) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.52) id 1G8Gis-0007Xr-Nq for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 02 Aug 2006 09:25:18 -0400 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lola.goethe.zz) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1G8Gfk-0003L3-Fl; Wed, 02 Aug 2006 09:22:04 -0400 Original-Received: by lola.goethe.zz (Postfix, from userid 1002) id AAC591C4CD60; Wed, 2 Aug 2006 15:21:57 +0200 (CEST) Original-To: Aidan Kehoe In-Reply-To: <17616.40996.316155.604207@parhasard.net> (Aidan Kehoe's message of "Wed, 2 Aug 2006 14:52:52 +0200") User-Agent: Gnus/5.11 (Gnus v5.11) Emacs/22.0.50 (gnu/linux) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:58000 Archived-At: Aidan Kehoe writes: > Ar an dara l=E1 de m=ED L=FAnasa, scr=EDobh David Kastrup:=20 > > > Note that this is all water under the draw bridge now, but > > historically, the creators of Lucid Emacs laid claim to and > > hijacked the name Emacs (without any further qualifications) for > > their own fork of it. > > As Stallman hijacked the name of TECO Emacs (which editor he did not > come up with on his own, remember) before them. Please get your history right, for example by looking at . The name "Emacs" came first into use for a system coauthored by Richard. > Lucid is long dead, Ben Wing is working intermittently at best, the > editor has been called XEmacs for a decade, the documentation no > longer tries to confuse the issue; I have relatively little sympathy > for paranoia on this. The current XEmacs manual begins with: The XEmacs Editor ***************** XEmacs is the extensible, customizable, self-documenting real-time display editor. This Info file describes how to edit with Emacs and some of how to customize it, but not how to extend it. It corresponds to XEmacs version 21.0. As you can see, the name "Emacs" is still used to refer to XEmacs. It is also used interchangeably in the manual to refer to XEmacs: Important General Concepts * Frame:: How to interpret what you see on the screen. * Keystrokes:: Keyboard gestures XEmacs recognizes. * Pull-down Menus:: The XEmacs Pull-down Menus available under X. * Entering Emacs:: Starting Emacs from the shell. * Exiting:: Stopping or killing XEmacs. * Command Switches:: So I can't really say that "the documentation no longer tries to confuse the issue" is accurate, whether by oversight or design. If you take a look at the node "Distribution", for example you can read Getting Other Versions of Emacs =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Free Software Foundation's version of Emacs (called "FSF Emacs" in this manual and often referred to as "GNU Emacs") is available by anonymous FTP from `prep.ai.mit.edu'. So your contention that the "documentation no longer tries to confuse the issue" is simply wrong. Whether this is by intent, by sloppiness, or because nobody bothers updating or correcting the manuals from XEmacs 21.4, the stable version, I don't know. But there are certainly more than enough instances where the XEmacs manual suggests that XEmacs is a version rather than a fork of Emacs. For example, in the node "Bugs", in "How to report a Bug", there is only the name "Emacs" used throughout the whole node. It ends like this: For possible display bugs, it is important to report the terminal type (the value of environment variable `TERM'), the complete termcap entry for the terminal from `/etc/termcap' (since that file is not identical on all machines), and the output that Emacs actually sent to the terminal. The way to collect this output is to execute the Lisp expression: (open-termscript "~/termscript") using `Meta-' or from the `*scratch*' buffer just after starting Emacs. From then on, all output from Emacs to the terminal will be written in the specified termscript file as well, until the Emacs process is killed. If the problem happens when Emacs starts up, put this expression into your init file so that the termscript file will be open when Emacs displays the screen for the first time. *Note Init File::. Be warned: it is often difficult, and sometimes impossible, to fix a terminal-dependent bug without access to a terminal of the type that stimulates the bug. The newsgroup `comp.emacs.xemacs' may be used for bug reports, other discussions and requests for assistance. If you don't have access to this newgroup, you can subscribe to the mailing list version: the newsgroup is bidirectionally gatewayed into the mailing list `xemacs@xemacs.org'. To be added or removed from this mailing list, send mail to `xemacs-request@xemacs.org'. Do not send requests for addition to the mailing list itself. This implies that "Emacs" is synonymous to the editor maintained by the XEmacs developers: if you have a problem with Emacs, contact the XEmacs mailing lists. So yes, there is still a lot of confusing material around that tries to sell off XEmacs as "the" Emacs, and even in the core documentation of XEmacs. So I don't think your characterization as "paranoia" appropriate: there are good reasons still for Emacs developers to cleanly distinguish between Emacs and XEmacs. It is our project policy, it is mentioned in the Emacs FAQ, and I personally consider it reasonable. I considered it reasonable even before checking the current XEmacs documentation and seeing that it was much more off-kilter than I thought it to be. --=20 David Kastrup, Kriemhildstr. 15, 44793 Bochum