From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: David Kastrup Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: TUTORIAL and scroll bar Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2006 08:49:44 +0200 Message-ID: <85wt9hkruf.fsf@lola.goethe.zz> References: <878xly60md.fsf@stupidchicken.com> <44DAD1FF.4030603@swipnet.se> NNTP-Posting-Host: main.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1155192670 1770 80.91.229.2 (10 Aug 2006 06:51:10 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2006 06:51:10 +0000 (UTC) Cc: Chong Yidong , eliz@gnu.org, rms@gnu.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Thu Aug 10 08:51:05 2006 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by ciao.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GB4Nb-0004e7-Nn for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 10 Aug 2006 08:50:56 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GB4Na-0003Rk-Cz for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 10 Aug 2006 02:50:54 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1GB4NP-0003Of-4U for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 10 Aug 2006 02:50:43 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1GB4NO-0003NJ-HM for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 10 Aug 2006 02:50:42 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GB4NO-0003NG-Ey for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 10 Aug 2006 02:50:42 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.164] (helo=fencepost.gnu.org) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.52) id 1GB4SF-0001YV-Dc for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 10 Aug 2006 02:55:43 -0400 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lola.goethe.zz) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1GB4N0-0005pi-7B; Thu, 10 Aug 2006 02:50:20 -0400 Original-Received: by lola.goethe.zz (Postfix, from userid 1002) id 46A5F1C4D3AF; Thu, 10 Aug 2006 08:49:44 +0200 (CEST) Original-To: Jan =?iso-8859-1?Q?Dj=E4rv?= In-Reply-To: <44DAD1FF.4030603@swipnet.se> (Jan =?iso-8859-1?Q?Dj=E4rv's?= message of "Thu, 10 Aug 2006 08:28:15 +0200") User-Agent: Gnus/5.11 (Gnus v5.11) Emacs/22.0.50 (gnu/linux) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:58253 Archived-At: Jan Dj=E4rv writes: > Richard Stallman skrev: >> > I guess this is done to be consistent with the defaults of the >> > respective window-system. >> >> If that's the rationale, I suggest moving scroll bars to the right on >> GTK as well. >> >> The main reason for putting scroll bars on the left is that most of the = text >> is on the left. In ordinary X11 toolkit scroll bars, there are mouse >> clicks whose operation is based on the line you click on, so it is useful >> to see the scroll bar close to the text on the line. >> >> However, the scroll bar commands on Windows and the Mac don't work >> that way, and it is not particularly useful for those scroll bars to >> be on the left. So they may as well go on the right, where people >> usually expect them. >> >> I am not sure what the scroll bar commands in the GTK version do. >> If they work like those of Windows, then those scroll bars may as >> well be on the right. > > I am not sure which commands you mean. Dou you mean that middle click > on the bar jumps the slider there? GTK has that. No, that is not related to the screen content. In Athena widgets (and Emacs' native scrollbars), clicking with the left mouse button will move the line where you click to the top of the screen, clicking with the right mouse button will move the top of the screen to where you clicked. That is: you can control the size of the movement, you can change the direction of the movement using equal distances without changing mouse position, and clicking in the same place will continue to work in either direction until you reach the end of buffer. The click action is independent of the current slider position. Windows, Mac and GTK scroll bars are _much_ less useful and can't be configured to be better. Which is why I always compile Emacs with --with-gtk --without-tool-kit-scrollbars GTK is nice, but its scroll bars suck as badly as almost anybody else's. Some years ago I asked on the GTK+ developer list whether they would be thinking of some option to put into .gtkrc-2.0 to fix that for people who could live without the dumbed-down bars of GTK+, but nobody was particularly interested in taking that up. --=20 David Kastrup, Kriemhildstr. 15, 44793 Bochum