From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: David Kastrup Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Next release Date: Sun, 04 May 2008 09:36:20 +0200 Message-ID: <85wsmacyh7.fsf@lola.goethe.zz> References: <18457.37369.262079.668907@kahikatea.snap.net.nz> <5jr6clncn8.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> <87od7p22dw.fsf@stupidchicken.com> <200805021331.m42DVYVw016584@sallyv1.ics.uci.edu> <200805021610.m42GAhkE001271@sallyv1.ics.uci.edu> <200805040056.m440u3eS022727@sallyv1.ics.uci.edu> <200805040206.m4426oct013714@sallyv1.ics.uci.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1209890531 22209 80.91.229.12 (4 May 2008 08:42:11 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 4 May 2008 08:42:11 +0000 (UTC) Cc: Dan Nicolaescu , emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sun May 04 10:42:45 2008 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1JsZnq-0000W1-Fq for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sun, 04 May 2008 10:42:38 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:39179 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1JsZn9-0004eG-1q for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sun, 04 May 2008 04:41:55 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1JsZmw-0004aM-Tp for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 04 May 2008 04:41:42 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1JsZmv-0004ZC-5M for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 04 May 2008 04:41:42 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (port=39717 helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1JsZmu-0004Yy-OX for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 04 May 2008 04:41:40 -0400 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([140.186.70.10]) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1JsZmu-0002Pb-9a for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 04 May 2008 04:41:40 -0400 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:44587 helo=lola.goethe.zz) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.67) (envelope-from ) id 1JsZmR-0001ev-AV; Sun, 04 May 2008 04:41:11 -0400 Original-Received: by lola.goethe.zz (Postfix, from userid 1002) id 8B3CB1C4F903; Sun, 4 May 2008 09:36:21 +0200 (CEST) In-Reply-To: (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Sun, 04 May 2008 07:21:29 +0300") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/23.0.60 (gnu/linux) X-detected-kernel: by monty-python.gnu.org: Linux 2.6, seldom 2.4 (older, 4) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:96426 Archived-At: Eli Zaretskii writes: > Certainly, being the one who works on the code imposes some > responsibility on you. We need to have the code in Emacs in a state where an outside programmer has a chance to read code and documentation and in a reasonable time frame can understand enough of its workings to fix problems or extend it. If the code is not at that level, it is a time bomb. I have (however well-founded that may be) the impression that XEmacs is falling apart at the seams due to central code parts that nobody feels fit to work on anymore. Now in this case, we had a conscious decision to incorporate code into Emacs that was not in that state, and where its author was no longer available. Dan was a more vocal proponent of including the code, but that does not make him better suited to do the integration work, just better suited for bitching at. But the work does not get done by bitching and fingerpointing long enough, it does only get done by doing work. Like in a democracy, where there is just one common country to live in, the decisions that were made by a majority have to be born by everybody. It is good that Dan is doing a part of the necessary work, even on platforms he does not work on himself. And having worked on that makes him a good candidate for further work, or for helping others getting work done. But it does not make him responsible for that, beyond the responsibility that capable people feel compelled to take upon themselves to help the less capable ones. But he did not become more capable by magic or birth, but by setting his mind on it and working on it. The documentation state of multi-tty leaves a lot to be desired, and that is the fault of work that did not get done yet. But none of us is in a situation where he could lean back and say "this certainly is somebody else's job to do". -- David Kastrup, Kriemhildstr. 15, 44793 Bochum