* Re: bug#19299: 25.0.50; "Contributing" button in *About GNU Emacs* no longer works [not found] ` <l7egsaulbz.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> @ 2014-12-09 0:06 ` Stephen Leake [not found] ` <slsigpq0hz.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> 1 sibling, 0 replies; 12+ messages in thread From: Stephen Leake @ 2014-12-09 0:06 UTC (permalink / raw) To: emacs-devel This is being discussed on emacs-devel, so I'm copying this there. Glenn Morris <rgm@gnu.org> writes: > Ulrich Mueller wrote: > >> In master, the CONTRIBUTE file was recently moved (back) from etc/ to >> the top-level dir. This breaks the corresponding button in the about >> page. To reproduce, type "M-x about-emacs RET" and then press the >> "Contributing" button: >> >> view-file: /usr/share/emacs/25.0.50/etc/CONTRIBUTE does not exist >> >>>From its new location, the file won't even be installed any more. >> >> (Note: The file had been moved from top-level to etc in 2007.) > > Yes, this file was moved into etc from top-level specifically so it > would be part of the installed Emacs. Personally I don't think that > moving it out again makes much sense, but if people really want to do > that, it needs more work. It needs to be in the installed Emacs, so a > special install rule will need to be written. The doc references that > refer to it being in the etc/ directory (grep will find these) will need > to be rewritten to account for it being in different places in installed > and uninstalled Emacs. Personally I think it would be a lot simpler to > move it back where it was and put a stub CONTRIBUTE at top-level that > just says "see etc/CONTRIBUTE". (But again, personally I don't think > this makes much sense.) I did not realize there was a link to etc/CONTRIBUTE in About. -- -- Stephe ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
[parent not found: <slsigpq0hz.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org>]
* Re: bug#19299: 25.0.50; "Contributing" button in *About GNU Emacs* no longer works [not found] ` <slsigpq0hz.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> @ 2014-12-09 0:12 ` Stephen Leake 2014-12-09 0:21 ` Alexis 0 siblings, 1 reply; 12+ messages in thread From: Stephen Leake @ 2014-12-09 0:12 UTC (permalink / raw) To: emacs-devel This is being discussed on emacs-devel, so I'm copying it there. Glenn Morris <rgm@gnu.org> writes: > PS perhaps there is some confusion as to the purpose of this file. > > The intended audience for etc/CONTRIBUTE is people who are not Emacs > developers and do not have write access to the repo. So it > specifically does not talk about how to commit things to Savannah, etc. > (People may have added bits of such information to the file in error.) > Many people just want to send a patch, not get write access. > That was why CONTRIBUTE needs to be in the installed Emacs. There is now developer stuff in CONTRIBUTE. I suggest we move the "for non-developers" info into the Emacs manual Contributing section, and keep CONTRIBUTE for developers. Hmm; I'm assuming the Emacs manual is always installed with Emacs; is that true? > "What people who commit to Emacs need to know" is a much more lengthy > document, and IMO should be a separate one. (IIRC, Xue Fuqiao wrote a > version of it the last time this came up; see emacs-devel archives. > I have to say that I didn't like that version much.) > > Such a document is obviously long overdue. Yes, and the consensus here seemed to be it should be in CONTRIBUTE. Apparently we forgot the rationale for CONTRIBUTE. Which is a _very_ good argument for using texinfo for CONTRIBUTE; you can put rationale in comments. -- -- Stephe ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
* Re: bug#19299: 25.0.50; "Contributing" button in *About GNU Emacs* no longer works 2014-12-09 0:12 ` Stephen Leake @ 2014-12-09 0:21 ` Alexis 2014-12-09 4:43 ` Glenn Morris 0 siblings, 1 reply; 12+ messages in thread From: Alexis @ 2014-12-09 0:21 UTC (permalink / raw) To: emacs-devel Stephen Leake writes: > Hmm; I'm assuming the Emacs manual is always installed with Emacs; is > that true? Not on Debian, due to GFDL / DFSG conflicts. Alexis. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
* Re: bug#19299: 25.0.50; "Contributing" button in *About GNU Emacs* no longer works 2014-12-09 0:21 ` Alexis @ 2014-12-09 4:43 ` Glenn Morris 2014-12-09 8:37 ` Stephen Leake 2014-12-09 16:22 ` Eli Zaretskii 0 siblings, 2 replies; 12+ messages in thread From: Glenn Morris @ 2014-12-09 4:43 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Alexis; +Cc: emacs-devel Alexis wrote: >> Hmm; I'm assuming the Emacs manual is always installed with Emacs; is >> that true? > > Not on Debian, due to GFDL / DFSG conflicts. That shouldn't be a factor in our decision. I'd welcome CONTRIBUTE being Texinfo-erized (probably emacs-xtra rather than emacs). ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
* Re: bug#19299: 25.0.50; "Contributing" button in *About GNU Emacs* no longer works 2014-12-09 4:43 ` Glenn Morris @ 2014-12-09 8:37 ` Stephen Leake 2014-12-09 16:22 ` Eli Zaretskii 1 sibling, 0 replies; 12+ messages in thread From: Stephen Leake @ 2014-12-09 8:37 UTC (permalink / raw) To: emacs-devel Glenn Morris <rgm@gnu.org> writes: > Alexis wrote: > >>> Hmm; I'm assuming the Emacs manual is always installed with Emacs; is >>> that true? >> >> Not on Debian, due to GFDL / DFSG conflicts. > > That shouldn't be a factor in our decision. > > I'd welcome CONTRIBUTE being Texinfo-erized (probably emacs-xtra rather > than emacs). There is already (info "(emacs)Contributing"); that's in doc/emacs/trouble.texi . It's mostly a pointer to etc/CONTRIBUTE. -- -- Stephe ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
* Re: bug#19299: 25.0.50; "Contributing" button in *About GNU Emacs* no longer works 2014-12-09 4:43 ` Glenn Morris 2014-12-09 8:37 ` Stephen Leake @ 2014-12-09 16:22 ` Eli Zaretskii 2014-12-09 17:55 ` Glenn Morris 2014-12-10 16:18 ` Richard Stallman 1 sibling, 2 replies; 12+ messages in thread From: Eli Zaretskii @ 2014-12-09 16:22 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Glenn Morris; +Cc: flexibeast, emacs-devel > From: Glenn Morris <rgm@gnu.org> > Date: Mon, 08 Dec 2014 23:43:15 -0500 > Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org > > Alexis wrote: > > >> Hmm; I'm assuming the Emacs manual is always installed with Emacs; is > >> that true? > > > > Not on Debian, due to GFDL / DFSG conflicts. > > That shouldn't be a factor in our decision. You mean, we shouldn't be concerned that this information will not be available to users of a popular platform? ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
* Re: bug#19299: 25.0.50; "Contributing" button in *About GNU Emacs* no longer works 2014-12-09 16:22 ` Eli Zaretskii @ 2014-12-09 17:55 ` Glenn Morris 2014-12-09 18:12 ` Eli Zaretskii 2014-12-10 16:18 ` Richard Stallman 1 sibling, 1 reply; 12+ messages in thread From: Glenn Morris @ 2014-12-09 17:55 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Eli Zaretskii; +Cc: flexibeast, emacs-devel Eli Zaretskii wrote: > You mean, we shouldn't be concerned that this information will not be > available to users of a popular platform? No, that's neither what I mean nor what the situation would be. I meant that we should not let how Debian choose to split their packages (and repositories) influence where we put Emacs information. (This seems obvious to me.) ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
* Re: bug#19299: 25.0.50; "Contributing" button in *About GNU Emacs* no longer works 2014-12-09 17:55 ` Glenn Morris @ 2014-12-09 18:12 ` Eli Zaretskii 2014-12-10 9:34 ` Stephen Leake 0 siblings, 1 reply; 12+ messages in thread From: Eli Zaretskii @ 2014-12-09 18:12 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Glenn Morris; +Cc: flexibeast, emacs-devel > From: Glenn Morris <rgm@gnu.org> > Cc: flexibeast@gmail.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org > Date: Tue, 09 Dec 2014 12:55:59 -0500 > > Eli Zaretskii wrote: > > > You mean, we shouldn't be concerned that this information will not be > > available to users of a popular platform? > > No, that's neither what I mean nor what the situation would be. > I meant that we should not let how Debian choose to split their packages > (and repositories) influence where we put Emacs information. Now I'm confused. If we put this in the manual, then Debian users will not see it. If we don't want that to happen, we should keep this on a separate file, not in the manual. Suppose we decide the latter: does this mean our decision was influenced by how Debian split their packages? What am I missing? ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
* Re: bug#19299: 25.0.50; "Contributing" button in *About GNU Emacs* no longer works 2014-12-09 18:12 ` Eli Zaretskii @ 2014-12-10 9:34 ` Stephen Leake 0 siblings, 0 replies; 12+ messages in thread From: Stephen Leake @ 2014-12-10 9:34 UTC (permalink / raw) To: emacs-devel Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> writes: >> From: Glenn Morris <rgm@gnu.org> >> Cc: flexibeast@gmail.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org >> Date: Tue, 09 Dec 2014 12:55:59 -0500 >> >> Eli Zaretskii wrote: >> >> > You mean, we shouldn't be concerned that this information will not be >> > available to users of a popular platform? >> >> No, that's neither what I mean nor what the situation would be. >> I meant that we should not let how Debian choose to split their packages >> (and repositories) influence where we put Emacs information. > > Now I'm confused. If we put this in the manual, then Debian users > will not see it. Unless they take the extra steps of adding 'non-free' to their distribution list, and installing the Emacs documentation. I think this is an important issue. Remember, the point of this file is to encourage Emacs users to contribute bug reports/patches/etc to Emacs; we want it to be easily available to everyone. -- -- Stephe ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
* Re: bug#19299: 25.0.50; "Contributing" button in *About GNU Emacs* no longer works 2014-12-09 16:22 ` Eli Zaretskii 2014-12-09 17:55 ` Glenn Morris @ 2014-12-10 16:18 ` Richard Stallman 2014-12-10 17:15 ` Stephen Leake 1 sibling, 1 reply; 12+ messages in thread From: Richard Stallman @ 2014-12-10 16:18 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Eli Zaretskii; +Cc: rgm, flexibeast, emacs-devel [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]] [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] > You mean, we shouldn't be concerned that this information will not be > available to users of a popular platform? I don't know exactly what practical question is at issue here, but in general we don't want to make concessions to Debian's policy. Debian should change that policy. -- Dr Richard Stallman President, Free Software Foundation 51 Franklin St Boston MA 02110 USA www.fsf.org www.gnu.org Skype: No way! That's nonfree (freedom-denying) software. Use Ekiga or an ordinary phone call. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
* Re: bug#19299: 25.0.50; "Contributing" button in *About GNU Emacs* no longer works 2014-12-10 16:18 ` Richard Stallman @ 2014-12-10 17:15 ` Stephen Leake 2014-12-15 8:39 ` Richard Stallman 0 siblings, 1 reply; 12+ messages in thread From: Stephen Leake @ 2014-12-10 17:15 UTC (permalink / raw) To: emacs-devel Richard Stallman <rms@gnu.org> writes: > [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]] > [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] > [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] > > > You mean, we shouldn't be concerned that this information will not be > > available to users of a popular platform? > > I don't know exactly what practical question is at issue here, The issue is the "contributing" link from the Emacs Help | About Emacs buffer. In 24.4, that link brings up the file etc/CONTRIBUTE, which is installed by the Emacs binary install. We've moved .../etc/CONTRIBUTE to .../CONTRIBUTE, on the theory that this would make it more visible, forgetting about the About page. We've also put developer information in there, forgetting about the original intent of the file (which was to encourage users to contribute bug reports and patches to Emacs). In order to resolve these issues, I proposed moving the non-developer information into the Emacs manual (info "(emacs)Contributing"), and changing the link on the About page to point to that. I then asked whether we could rely on the Emacs manual being installed, and someone pointed out that on Debian (and possibly derived distributions), it takes extra user steps to install the Emacs manual, due to the free/non-free policy issue. However, I now see that one of the other links in About already points to the manual: Ordering Manuals So we could just follow that precedent. -- -- Stephe ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
* Re: bug#19299: 25.0.50; "Contributing" button in *About GNU Emacs* no longer works 2014-12-10 17:15 ` Stephen Leake @ 2014-12-15 8:39 ` Richard Stallman 0 siblings, 0 replies; 12+ messages in thread From: Richard Stallman @ 2014-12-15 8:39 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Stephen Leake; +Cc: emacs-devel [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]] [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] > We've moved .../etc/CONTRIBUTE to .../CONTRIBUTE, on the theory that > this would make it more visible, forgetting about the About page. We could put the file in both places, using a symlink or having 'make dist' copy the master into the secondary copy. -- Dr Richard Stallman President, Free Software Foundation 51 Franklin St Boston MA 02110 USA www.fsf.org www.gnu.org Skype: No way! That's nonfree (freedom-denying) software. Use Ekiga or an ordinary phone call. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
end of thread, other threads:[~2014-12-15 8:39 UTC | newest]
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[not found] ` <l7egsaulbz.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org>
2014-12-09 0:06 ` bug#19299: 25.0.50; "Contributing" button in *About GNU Emacs* no longer works Stephen Leake
[not found] ` <slsigpq0hz.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org>
2014-12-09 0:12 ` Stephen Leake
2014-12-09 0:21 ` Alexis
2014-12-09 4:43 ` Glenn Morris
2014-12-09 8:37 ` Stephen Leake
2014-12-09 16:22 ` Eli Zaretskii
2014-12-09 17:55 ` Glenn Morris
2014-12-09 18:12 ` Eli Zaretskii
2014-12-10 9:34 ` Stephen Leake
2014-12-10 16:18 ` Richard Stallman
2014-12-10 17:15 ` Stephen Leake
2014-12-15 8:39 ` Richard Stallman
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