From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: David Kastrup Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Saving markup formats Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2007 07:37:43 +0200 Message-ID: <85sl8ngp94.fsf@lola.goethe.zz> References: <871wgi9jzb.fsf@jidanni.org> <87odjlwpu1.fsf@jurta.org> <87ir9r1m99.fsf@jurta.org> <87myz2i9tj.fsf@jurta.org> <87r6ocx0tk.fsf_-_@jurta.org> <87d4zuyvn6.fsf@gmx.de> <87fy4prmdf.fsf@jurta.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1182317876 32005 80.91.229.12 (20 Jun 2007 05:37:56 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2007 05:37:56 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Oliver Scholz Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Wed Jun 20 07:37:54 2007 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1I0st6-0002pq-JW for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Wed, 20 Jun 2007 07:37:52 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1I0st6-0001bl-6Y for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Wed, 20 Jun 2007 01:37:52 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1I0st2-0001bC-Gf for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 20 Jun 2007 01:37:48 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1I0st1-0001b0-3l for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 20 Jun 2007 01:37:48 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1I0st1-0001ax-1X for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 20 Jun 2007 01:37:47 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-in-03.arcor-online.net ([151.189.21.43]) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS-1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1I0st0-00069o-G2 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 20 Jun 2007 01:37:46 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-in-01-z2.arcor-online.net (mail-in-09-z2.arcor-online.net [151.189.8.21]) by mail-in-03.arcor-online.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id CE144275E02; Wed, 20 Jun 2007 07:37:44 +0200 (CEST) Original-Received: from mail-in-13.arcor-online.net (mail-in-13.arcor-online.net [151.189.21.53]) by mail-in-01-z2.arcor-online.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id BF14728EE1B; Wed, 20 Jun 2007 07:37:44 +0200 (CEST) Original-Received: from lola.goethe.zz (dslb-084-061-062-106.pools.arcor-ip.net [84.61.62.106]) by mail-in-13.arcor-online.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id A3195225121; Wed, 20 Jun 2007 07:37:44 +0200 (CEST) Original-Received: by lola.goethe.zz (Postfix, from userid 1002) id 865181D0340C; Wed, 20 Jun 2007 07:37:43 +0200 (CEST) In-Reply-To: (Oliver Scholz's message of "Wed\, 20 Jun 2007 02\:08\:38 +0200") User-Agent: Gnus/5.11 (Gnus v5.11) Emacs/22.1.50 (gnu/linux) X-detected-kernel: Linux 2.4-2.6 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:73380 Archived-At: Oliver Scholz writes: > Richard Stallman writes: > >> This is a very bad thing; a _reliable_ word >> processor---as opposed to an unreliable hack---shouldn't make any >> changes to the logical structure of a document unless explicitly >> ordered to do it. >> >> I reject that position (as well as the gratuitous insult tacked onto >> it) > > It was not meant as an insult; by "unreliable hack" I was refering to > my own first implementation. Of course, I was also referring to a > general implementation strategy, still "insult" seems a bit strong. > > I'll try to refrain from further discussing this issue. I have to > admit that from memory I can't think of any case where the approach > you describe would fail with RTF---at least with the help of markup > text in a buffer. My personal opinions are of no concern here. I find myself agreeing with you here: documents should preserve structure. Word has so-called "style sheets" as a structuring method, and it means that you can change the layout of a document consistently by changing the style sheet. Ignoring the structure of the RTF and saving something visually equivalent is breaking the document. While it does not much harm to the documents of _naive_ Word users, it would be horrible to load a complex file, change a few words, and have it saved basically as a seemingly same-looking but unmaintainable mess. -- David Kastrup, Kriemhildstr. 15, 44793 Bochum