From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: David Kastrup Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Multi-tty design (Re: Reordering etc/NEWS) Date: Sat, 12 May 2007 15:34:09 +0200 Message-ID: <85r6pmcgj2.fsf@lola.goethe.zz> References: <87fy65k6eh.fsf@red-bean.com> <853b25lk43.fsf@lola.goethe.zz> <87sla5iqhs.fsf@red-bean.com> <85sla5k4py.fsf@lola.goethe.zz> <4642C8C9.5050804@gnu.org> <86tzul15ky.fsf@lola.quinscape.zz> <4642E388.9010503@gnu.org> <86odktypii.fsf@lola.quinscape.zz> <86k5vhyoo8.fsf@lola.quinscape.zz> <4644FBFC.6090903@lorentey.hu> <85ejlmh402.fsf@lola.goethe.zz> <4645AE8D.8080004@lorentey.hu> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1178976856 21131 80.91.229.12 (12 May 2007 13:34:16 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 12 May 2007 13:34:16 +0000 (UTC) Cc: joakim@verona.se, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: =?utf-8?Q?K=C3=A1roly_L=C5=91rentey?= Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sat May 12 15:34:14 2007 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1Hmrjh-0007nq-Db for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 12 May 2007 15:34:13 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HmrrE-0003aT-Dr for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 12 May 2007 09:42:00 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1HmrrA-0003ZZ-Ip for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 12 May 2007 09:41:56 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1Hmrr9-0003ZN-27 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 12 May 2007 09:41:56 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hmrr8-0003ZK-Tz for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 12 May 2007 09:41:54 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-in-07.arcor-online.net ([151.189.21.47]) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS-1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1Hmrja-0007kw-QJ for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 12 May 2007 09:34:07 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-in-01-z2.arcor-online.net (mail-in-10-z2.arcor-online.net [151.189.8.27]) by mail-in-07.arcor-online.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6E37124B000; Sat, 12 May 2007 15:34:05 +0200 (CEST) Original-Received: from mail-in-03.arcor-online.net (mail-in-03.arcor-online.net [151.189.21.43]) by mail-in-01-z2.arcor-online.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 58F4423D40B; Sat, 12 May 2007 15:34:05 +0200 (CEST) Original-Received: from lola.goethe.zz (dslb-084-061-053-057.pools.arcor-ip.net [84.61.53.57]) by mail-in-03.arcor-online.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3711730A929; Sat, 12 May 2007 15:34:05 +0200 (CEST) Original-Received: by lola.goethe.zz (Postfix, from userid 1002) id 4592C1C27956; Sat, 12 May 2007 15:34:09 +0200 (CEST) In-Reply-To: <4645AE8D.8080004@lorentey.hu> (=?iso-8859-1?Q?=22K=E1roly?= Lo"'s message of "Sat\, 12 May 2007 14\:09\:49 +0200") User-Agent: Gnus/5.11 (Gnus v5.11) Emacs/22.0.98 (gnu/linux) X-detected-kernel: Linux 2.4-2.6 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:70892 Archived-At: "K=C3=A1roly L=C5=91rentey" writes: > David Kastrup wrote: >> Well, the _proper_ multiplatform way of things would be to extend >> emacsclient with a display engine. Then only system-independent data >> would need to cross between emacs and emacsclient, and it would not be >> a problem to open a Carbon emacsclient connecting to a Windows >> emacsserver. > > Yeah, that would be great. However, implementing a "properly" > device-independent client-server model was never the purpose of the > multi-tty branch. > >> Complete independency is probably illusionary. gnuclient opens its >> own frame in a tty (I don't think emacsclient has this sort of >> operation). I would guess that it passes the terminal geometry and >> TERM variables through the socket and basically lets Emacs talk to the >> tty through its socket, shutting down when Emacs tells it. > > Currently Emacs simply opens the controlling tty of emacsclient > directly. How would this work over a modem link? > Environment variables are frame-local and are passed from > emacsclient to Emacs before the first frame is created. All of them? Things like PATH, too? > Signals such as SIGWINCH, SIGTSTP, SIGTTOU and SIGCONT are handled > and forwarded to Emacs in a sensible way. Emacs does most of the > tty-related work, emacsclient simply stands out of the way. Which is pretty much the situation with X11, too. > Previously, there was a stage when emacsclient created a screen-like > proxy pseudo-tty and had Emacs open that. The added complexity > really did not win us anything important (apart from having "su > otheruser emacsclient" work). Ok. I think we should discuss details once multitty is available via Savannah. >>> How to recover when someone accidentally calls server-stop?) >>=20 >> Similar to someone "accidentally" calling kill-emacs. > > So if the server stops, Emacs exits. OK. If there is no way to contact Emacs anymore, that would seem like a sensible default once Emacs is idling. >> When there is trouble with a server, one sends it a signal >> manually. I don't see that there are too many things around which >> require code rather than decisions. > > I can't understand this last sentence. I mean that it appears that most problems can probably be tackled mostly by documenting the bahavior rather than writing complex code. > My point is that allowing frameless Emacs instances is not hard to > implement, but it is a non-essential feature and I judged it is > better deferred after the merge. Sure. --=20 David Kastrup, Kriemhildstr. 15, 44793 Bochum