From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: David Kastrup Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: visual-line-mode Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2008 10:09:41 +0200 Message-ID: <85r69zr0ai.fsf@lola.goethe.zz> References: <85E9BC5B-7337-4CD4-A783-6B2FAEBAEBCA@gmail.com> <87tzf6c5il.fsf@stupidchicken.com> <87abgxx0ju.fsf@stupidchicken.com> <4D997CA8-A2ED-4E12-9F91-76E98AE95210@gmail.com> <87prpsjhre.fsf@stupidchicken.com> <375C0006-2B47-4B1F-9EB2-ED47941C2DB3@gmail.com> <87od56tp4o.fsf@stupidchicken.com> <71C2D50C-1680-4ADD-A7E3-7B7A1146B85D@gmail.com> <87ej61n19h.fsf@stupidchicken.com> <87vdzdr6f6.fsf@catnip.gol.com> <87fxqhpblm.fsf@stupidchicken.com> <87iqvdrq92.fsf@stupidchicken.com> <41BE2BC8-BA2A-449E-B42A-25AA21AD7B22@gmail.com> <87y7486tux.fsf@catnip.gol.com> <85ej60ru6t.fsf@lola.goethe.zz> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1215850217 11883 80.91.229.12 (12 Jul 2008 08:10:17 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2008 08:10:17 +0000 (UTC) Cc: David Reitter , Chong Yidong , Emacs-Devel devel , "Lennart Borgman \(gmail\)" , Miles Bader To: Stefan Monnier Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sat Jul 12 10:11:04 2008 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1KHaBy-0006N7-3D for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 12 Jul 2008 10:10:54 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:46484 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1KHaB6-0003MR-8h for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 12 Jul 2008 04:10:00 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1KHaAx-0003MB-1A for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 12 Jul 2008 04:09:51 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1KHaAw-0003Ls-93 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 12 Jul 2008 04:09:50 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (port=53011 helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1KHaAv-0003Ln-UP for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 12 Jul 2008 04:09:50 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-in-05.arcor-online.net ([151.189.21.45]:36515) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS-1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1KHaAq-0006UA-9J; Sat, 12 Jul 2008 04:09:44 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-in-17-z2.arcor-online.net (mail-in-17-z2.arcor-online.net [151.189.8.34]) by mail-in-05.arcor-online.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5141318364E; Sat, 12 Jul 2008 10:09:42 +0200 (CEST) Original-Received: from mail-in-17.arcor-online.net (mail-in-17.arcor-online.net [151.189.21.57]) by mail-in-17-z2.arcor-online.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 41A5245C041; Sat, 12 Jul 2008 10:09:42 +0200 (CEST) Original-Received: from lola.goethe.zz (dslb-084-061-040-057.pools.arcor-ip.net [84.61.40.57]) by mail-in-17.arcor-online.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id C86612BCBF6; Sat, 12 Jul 2008 10:09:41 +0200 (CEST) Original-Received: by lola.goethe.zz (Postfix, from userid 1002) id 5C6541CFAEEE; Sat, 12 Jul 2008 10:09:41 +0200 (CEST) In-Reply-To: (Stefan Monnier's message of "Fri, 11 Jul 2008 21:49:54 -0400") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/23.0.60 (gnu/linux) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.93.3/7694/Fri Jul 11 22:39:39 2008 on mail-in-17.arcor-online.net X-Virus-Status: Clean X-detected-kernel: by monty-python.gnu.org: Linux 2.4-2.6 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:100604 Archived-At: Stefan Monnier writes: > It clearly makes sense to use TL for all commands (what we've done > until now), and it also makes sense to use VL for all commands (as > provided by David Reitter's code). I don't think it makes sense to > use TL for C-n/C-p and VL for the rest. But should we support the > combination of VL for C-n/C-p and TL for the rest? That's what I've > been using recently and I like it, so I think it makes sense. I'm > even tempted to make it the default. But its internal inconsistence > is a bit troublesome. If you take a look at the documentation of next-line, you'll find that it goes to considerable pain to navigate _visually_ already without your patch. It vscrolls tall lines, it tries maintaining the current column and a few other things. So it makes some sense to let them move visual lines. That leaves us without an approach to logical lines. C-e C-f can be used to move to the next line, but not if those are mapped to logical movement as well. move-end-of-line and move-beginning-of-line inherently don't do visual work. So I think that for a default behavior, just affecting next-line, previous-line, scroll-up, scroll-down and possibly other visual-content related commands sounds reasonable and more or less in spirit to what is there already. -- David Kastrup, Kriemhildstr. 15, 44793 Bochum