From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: David Kastrup Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: scroll-conservatively default Date: Thu, 06 Dec 2007 12:10:22 +0100 Message-ID: <85odd4qdsx.fsf@lola.goethe.zz> References: <200712020048.lB20mS9R002812@oogie-boogie.ics.uci.edu> <200712032120.lB3LKwJ1003309@oogie-boogie.ics.uci.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1196939474 5810 80.91.229.12 (6 Dec 2007 11:11:14 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2007 11:11:14 +0000 (UTC) Cc: Leo , emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Miles Bader Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Thu Dec 06 12:11:23 2007 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1J0EdX-00052h-Ch for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 06 Dec 2007 12:11:23 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J0EdG-0006V4-Ie for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 06 Dec 2007 06:11:06 -0500 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1J0EcW-0005nX-NW for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 06 Dec 2007 06:10:20 -0500 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1J0EcW-0005my-4D for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 06 Dec 2007 06:10:20 -0500 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J0EcV-0005md-Ti for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 06 Dec 2007 06:10:19 -0500 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([140.186.70.10]) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1J0EcV-00074U-DK for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 06 Dec 2007 06:10:19 -0500 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lola.goethe.zz) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1J0EcU-00081y-DC; Thu, 06 Dec 2007 06:10:18 -0500 Original-Received: by lola.goethe.zz (Postfix, from userid 1002) id BB76B1C4CE16; Thu, 6 Dec 2007 12:10:22 +0100 (CET) In-Reply-To: (Miles Bader's message of "Thu, 06 Dec 2007 16:49:47 +0900") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/23.0.50 (gnu/linux) X-detected-kernel: by monty-python.gnu.org: Linux 2.6, seldom 2.4 (older, 4) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:84787 Archived-At: Miles Bader writes: > Leo writes: >> This mentality might eventually put Emacs to no more. A long time ago >> human live on eating leafs, however we have evolved. > > You're not seriously suggesting that people will scorn Emacs because of > minor differences in scrolling behavior are you? Being able to make the material one needs to view as a unit appear on the screen painlessly is one of the most important and frequent operations for a screen editor. Emacs' keybindings in connection with the scrolling behavior don't help (vi has extra keybindings C-e and C-y for scrolling without moving point). This is pretty much the main reason that I compile --without-toolkit-scrollbars. The resulting Athena-style scrollbars are the only reasonable tool for making an Emacs window show the right excerpts with a tolerable efficiency. The "standard" GTK scrollbar is useless for that, and so are the normal key and scrolling settings. And yes: if one of the most important and basic function from an editor, namely getting the desired code range into view, is not available, this will most certainly keep people from using the editor. -- David Kastrup, Kriemhildstr. 15, 44793 Bochum