From: Wolfgang Jenkner <wjenkner@inode.at>
To: Paul Eggert <eggert@cs.ucla.edu>
Cc: rms@gnu.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org
Subject: Re: Upcoming loss of usability of Emacs source files and Emacs.
Date: Tue, 23 Jun 2015 19:53:11 +0200 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <85h9pyxqbz.fsf@iznogoud.viz> (raw)
In-Reply-To: 55898885.8010603@cs.ucla.edu
On Tue, Jun 23 2015, Paul Eggert wrote:
> Richard Stallman wrote:
>> The full conventions for doc strings are definitely not
>> part of the rudiments.
>
> True, but quoting is pretty elementary. Most doc strings use it,
> I daresay. For example, the doc strings for ‘car’, ‘cdr’, and ‘length’
> all use quoting. These are the sorts of doc strings that new users are
> likely to see.
>
> I agree with you, by the way, that the improvement due to using curved
> quotes is not a large one. Emacs's use of an obsolescent quoting
> style is merely a constant minor annoyance, and it's obviously
> something that we can work around when we teach Emacs to students --
> we can even give them a little history lesson as we go.
You could equally well choose to present doc strings in emacs as an
example of how to decouple mark-up from presentation instead, though.
I mean, those quotes (any kind of quotes) in *Help* or *info* are a bit
odd anyway given that documentation presented in web browsers usually
manages to do fine without them.
How do you explain to your students why they are needed (the quotes, not
the students)?
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2015-06-23 17:53 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 296+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2015-06-15 14:22 Upcoming loss of usability of Emacs source files and Emacs Alan Mackenzie
2015-06-15 14:46 ` Oleh Krehel
2015-06-15 15:34 ` Tassilo Horn
2015-06-15 20:00 ` Paul Eggert
2015-06-15 20:16 ` Nicolas Petton
2015-06-15 21:04 ` Paul Eggert
2015-06-16 6:34 ` Tassilo Horn
2015-06-16 12:03 ` Robert Pluim
2015-06-16 12:35 ` Tassilo Horn
2015-06-16 13:10 ` Yuri Khan
2015-06-16 12:58 ` Andy Moreton
2015-06-16 23:53 ` Paul Eggert
2015-06-22 13:24 ` Oleh Krehel
2015-06-22 15:23 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-06-15 15:14 ` raman
2015-06-15 15:23 ` Drew Adams
2015-06-15 15:30 ` Kaushal
2015-06-15 15:31 ` Kaushal
2015-06-15 16:33 ` Stephan Mueller
2015-06-15 15:38 ` Artur Malabarba
2015-06-15 18:28 ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-06-15 18:42 ` Nicolas Petton
2015-06-15 16:11 ` Ulrich Mueller
2015-06-15 17:18 ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2015-06-15 17:44 ` Drew Adams
2015-06-15 19:38 ` Richard Stallman
2015-06-15 16:43 ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2015-06-15 17:43 ` Drew Adams
2015-06-16 0:50 ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2015-06-16 22:18 ` Alan Mackenzie
2015-06-17 6:59 ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2015-06-16 23:56 ` Paul Eggert
2015-06-15 19:38 ` Richard Stallman
2015-06-15 20:57 ` Paul Eggert
2015-06-16 15:55 ` Richard Stallman
2015-06-16 22:43 ` Emanuel Berg
2015-06-17 7:17 ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2015-06-17 1:54 ` Paul Eggert
2015-06-17 6:21 ` Tassilo Horn
2015-06-17 6:36 ` Paul Eggert
2015-06-17 8:05 ` Tassilo Horn
2015-06-18 4:07 ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2015-06-17 13:03 ` Stefan Monnier
2015-06-17 18:55 ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-06-18 4:24 ` Stefan Monnier
2015-06-18 7:15 ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-06-19 2:39 ` Stefan Monnier
2015-06-19 7:41 ` Paul Eggert
2015-06-19 11:36 ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-06-19 14:07 ` Stefan Monnier
2015-06-19 16:51 ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-06-19 20:01 ` Stefan Monnier
2015-06-28 19:17 ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-06-28 23:31 ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-06-26 15:05 ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-06-26 19:26 ` Stefan Monnier
2015-06-26 22:49 ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-06-26 23:59 ` Paul Eggert
2015-06-27 2:08 ` Stefan Monnier
2015-06-28 1:10 ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-06-28 5:00 ` Stefan Monnier
2015-06-30 10:08 ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-06-30 13:50 ` Stefan Monnier
2015-06-30 14:12 ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-06-30 15:32 ` Andreas Schwab
2015-06-30 15:47 ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-06-30 15:54 ` Paul Eggert
2015-06-30 17:54 ` Stefan Monnier
2015-06-30 19:44 ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-06-30 22:15 ` Paul Eggert
2015-06-30 17:41 ` Stefan Monnier
2015-06-30 20:14 ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-06-30 14:37 ` Paul Eggert
2015-06-30 15:23 ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-07-01 13:28 ` Andy Moreton
2015-07-01 16:56 ` Paul Eggert
2015-07-01 18:06 ` Andy Moreton
2015-06-27 12:22 ` Richard Stallman
2015-06-27 14:46 ` Stefan Monnier
2015-06-28 9:52 ` Richard Stallman
2015-06-28 15:35 ` Paul Eggert
2015-06-29 9:13 ` Richard Stallman
2015-06-29 14:50 ` Paul Eggert
2015-06-29 21:52 ` Richard Stallman
2015-06-30 1:51 ` Paul Eggert
2015-06-30 16:53 ` Richard Stallman
2015-06-28 17:52 ` Tassilo Horn
2015-06-28 19:21 ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-06-28 20:28 ` Tassilo Horn
2015-06-28 20:36 ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-06-28 23:05 ` Drew Adams
2015-06-29 5:59 ` Tassilo Horn
2015-06-29 14:39 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-06-29 21:53 ` Richard Stallman
2015-06-29 22:08 ` Drew Adams
2015-06-28 19:27 ` Alan Mackenzie
2015-06-28 19:54 ` chad
2015-06-28 21:14 ` Alan Mackenzie
2015-06-28 21:37 ` Tassilo Horn
2015-06-29 21:49 ` Richard Stallman
2015-06-18 4:29 ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2015-06-18 7:19 ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-06-18 12:02 ` Richard Stallman
2015-06-19 4:06 ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2015-06-19 9:02 ` Alan Mackenzie
2015-06-19 15:36 ` Paul Eggert
2015-06-23 22:22 ` Alan Mackenzie
2015-06-23 22:47 ` Paul Eggert
2015-06-24 17:20 ` Alan Mackenzie
2015-06-25 22:24 ` Paul Eggert
2015-06-26 13:57 ` Richard Stallman
2015-06-22 1:44 ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2015-06-22 8:42 ` Elias Mårtenson
2015-06-23 16:01 ` Paul Eggert
2015-06-22 13:57 ` Richard Stallman
2015-06-22 15:33 ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2015-06-23 12:38 ` Richard Stallman
2015-06-23 17:06 ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2015-06-23 18:07 ` Alan Mackenzie
2015-06-24 18:24 ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2015-06-22 15:31 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-06-22 18:32 ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2015-06-22 18:59 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-06-23 3:16 ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2015-06-23 11:40 ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-06-23 13:02 ` Nikolai Weibull
2015-06-23 13:22 ` Oleh Krehel
2015-06-23 18:22 ` Nikolai Weibull
2015-06-23 19:29 ` Alan Mackenzie
2015-06-23 19:53 ` Nikolai Weibull
2015-06-23 14:03 ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-06-23 18:39 ` Nikolai Weibull
2015-06-23 19:04 ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-06-23 19:12 ` Nikolai Weibull
2015-06-23 22:22 ` Richard Stallman
2015-06-23 15:43 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-06-23 18:17 ` Nikolai Weibull
2015-06-23 18:36 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-06-23 19:05 ` Nikolai Weibull
2015-06-23 19:21 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-06-23 19:51 ` Nikolai Weibull
2015-06-23 20:29 ` Marcin Borkowski
2015-06-23 20:42 ` Matthew Carter
[not found] ` <E1Z7UpW-0007r3-2O@fencepost.gnu.org>
2015-06-23 20:55 ` Marcin Borkowski
2015-06-29 9:13 ` Richard Stallman
2015-06-23 13:34 ` Stefan Monnier
2015-06-23 14:31 ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-06-23 22:22 ` Richard Stallman
2015-06-23 22:51 ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-06-24 14:55 ` Richard Stallman
2015-06-24 15:44 ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-06-25 7:49 ` Richard Stallman
2015-06-25 15:45 ` Stefan Monnier
2015-06-25 22:49 ` Richard Stallman
2015-06-26 1:15 ` Stefan Monnier
2015-06-26 13:57 ` Richard Stallman
2015-06-26 19:22 ` Stefan Monnier
2015-06-27 12:20 ` Richard Stallman
2015-06-27 15:36 ` Paul Eggert
2015-06-28 9:51 ` Richard Stallman
2015-06-26 13:58 ` Richard Stallman
2015-06-23 15:36 ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2015-06-23 15:42 ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-06-24 15:13 ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2015-06-24 15:49 ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-06-24 18:55 ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2015-06-24 19:19 ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-06-25 1:28 ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2015-06-23 12:41 ` Richard Stallman
2015-06-23 18:50 ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2015-06-23 14:56 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-06-23 19:57 ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2015-06-24 14:34 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-06-17 14:41 ` Richard Stallman
2015-06-17 14:58 ` Nicolas Petton
2015-06-17 16:03 ` Drew Adams
2015-06-17 18:30 ` Marcin Borkowski
2015-06-17 18:41 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-06-17 19:28 ` Steinar Bang
2015-06-18 4:22 ` Stefan Monnier
2015-06-18 4:52 ` ASCII-folded search [was: Re: Upcoming loss of usability ...] Stephen J. Turnbull
2015-06-18 5:27 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-06-18 7:48 ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2015-06-18 8:33 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-06-18 8:16 ` Artur Malabarba
2015-06-18 8:46 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-06-18 9:50 ` Artur Malabarba
2015-06-18 10:13 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-06-22 20:49 ` Artur Malabarba
2015-06-22 21:02 ` Artur Malabarba
2015-06-22 21:03 ` Artur Malabarba
2015-06-22 22:24 ` Juri Linkov
2015-06-22 23:28 ` Artur Malabarba
2015-06-23 22:49 ` Juri Linkov
2015-06-24 8:03 ` Artur Malabarba
2015-06-24 14:47 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-06-24 17:41 ` Artur Malabarba
2015-06-24 18:56 ` Stefan Monnier
2015-06-24 21:44 ` Juri Linkov
2015-06-24 21:57 ` Juri Linkov
2015-06-24 21:59 ` Artur Malabarba
2015-06-24 22:22 ` Juri Linkov
2015-06-25 1:56 ` Artur Malabarba
2015-06-25 17:49 ` Kaushal
2015-06-25 22:27 ` Juri Linkov
2015-06-26 9:32 ` Artur Malabarba
2015-06-26 12:13 ` Kaushal
2015-06-26 15:19 ` Drew Adams
2015-06-26 17:20 ` Artur Malabarba
2015-06-26 18:42 ` Drew Adams
2015-06-26 18:42 ` Drew Adams
2015-06-26 19:08 ` Artur Malabarba
2015-06-26 20:34 ` Drew Adams
2015-06-26 21:56 ` Artur Malabarba
2015-06-26 22:54 ` Drew Adams
2015-06-27 8:07 ` Artur Malabarba
2015-06-27 8:17 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-06-26 17:14 ` Artur Malabarba
2015-06-27 22:48 ` Juri Linkov
2015-06-26 15:11 ` Drew Adams
2015-06-23 16:46 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-06-23 17:20 ` Artur Malabarba
2015-06-23 17:33 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-06-23 16:43 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-06-23 17:19 ` Artur Malabarba
2015-06-23 17:31 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-06-18 5:27 ` Upcoming loss of usability of Emacs source files and Emacs Ulrich Mueller
2015-06-18 5:46 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-06-18 7:08 ` Ulrich Mueller
2015-06-18 7:41 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-06-18 16:44 ` Ulrich Mueller
2015-06-18 17:23 ` Steinar Bang
2015-06-18 17:32 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-06-18 18:13 ` Steinar Bang
2015-06-18 18:26 ` Marcin Borkowski
2015-06-18 20:18 ` Steinar Bang
2015-06-18 21:27 ` Steinar Bang
2015-06-18 18:32 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-06-18 20:16 ` Steinar Bang
2015-06-19 4:24 ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2015-06-18 4:49 ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2015-06-17 16:18 ` Robert Pluim
2015-06-18 12:00 ` Richard Stallman
2015-06-18 20:11 ` Robert Pluim
2015-06-18 7:05 ` Paul Eggert
2015-06-18 7:44 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-06-19 9:03 ` Richard Stallman
2015-06-20 6:02 ` Paul Eggert
2015-06-20 17:37 ` Richard Stallman
2015-06-20 19:43 ` Paul Eggert
2015-06-21 14:16 ` Richard Stallman
2015-06-21 19:50 ` Paul Eggert
2015-06-22 13:55 ` Richard Stallman
2015-06-22 15:26 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-06-23 12:37 ` Richard Stallman
2015-06-23 13:08 ` Nikolai Weibull
2015-06-23 15:37 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-06-23 22:21 ` Richard Stallman
2015-06-24 2:48 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-06-24 14:56 ` Richard Stallman
2015-06-24 15:11 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-06-24 19:09 ` Paul Eggert
2015-06-25 7:49 ` Richard Stallman
2015-06-25 14:27 ` Paul Eggert
2015-06-24 9:29 ` Oleh Krehel
2015-06-24 14:54 ` Richard Stallman
2015-06-23 16:25 ` Paul Eggert
2015-06-23 17:53 ` Wolfgang Jenkner [this message]
2015-06-23 22:54 ` Paul Eggert
2015-06-23 22:21 ` Richard Stallman
2015-06-22 22:22 ` Juri Linkov
2015-06-15 16:52 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-06-17 7:16 ` Daniel Colascione
2015-06-17 8:15 ` Tassilo Horn
2015-06-17 8:40 ` Alan Mackenzie
2015-06-17 9:02 ` Yuri Khan
2015-06-17 11:20 ` Tassilo Horn
2015-06-17 12:27 ` Artur Malabarba
2015-06-19 21:35 ` Paul Nathan
[not found] <<20150615142237.GA3517@acm.fritz.box>
[not found] ` <<87ioamz8if.fsf@petton.fr>
[not found] ` <<32013464-2300-46c6-ba46-4a3c36bfee5d@default>
[not found] ` <<87twu62nnt.fsf@mbork.pl>
[not found] ` <<87oakdfwim.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
[not found] ` <<83wpz1lh7c.fsf@gnu.org>
[not found] ` <<CAAdUY-K0QVtMLG3v+EmmjXDCW6DWwJiSsV0giHX9rJ9EFDHL7Q@mail.gmail.com>
[not found] ` <<83oakdl7yj.fsf@gnu.org>
[not found] ` <<CAAdUY-LLRyb_ruWMTQMjZCSFRJD7d-sLJD7sfj41nnhWhghCBw@mail.gmail.com>
[not found] ` <<83ioall3x5.fsf@gnu.org>
[not found] ` <<CAAdUY-JYmKsadzH0jy4fLK_eeC9V6wuX7UReKJ5m1FX9ZMzkrw@mail.gmail.com>
[not found] ` <<CAAdUY-JSZfnjBo8R7hKQswoqOfo024D0Dc7BmTP_4at9TWv-TA@mail.gmail.com>
[not found] ` <<87h9pzxtyi.fsf@mail.linkov.net>
[not found] ` <<CAAdUY-JO+wLX+EyHF7nv5Hii8ahYUk0YHMTrTOXAsuwFGoaAoA@mail.gmail.com>
[not found] ` <<87k2uudoqr.fsf@mail.linkov.net>
[not found] ` <<CAAdUY-LyfyZU3KfM1mvP5tjmeH=uQQM3B2+uDabv3mQT3Dm9JQ@mail.gmail.com>
[not found] ` <<87616c94g4.fsf@mail.linkov.net>
[not found] ` <<CAAdUY-KR+fcPzxaw7KgQ9pz38CeC8mRMWSZnY3_A2QRWGp8RCQ@mail.gmail.com>
[not found] ` <<87h9pw6922.fsf@mail.linkov.net>
[not found] ` <<CAAdUY-KoyQbteW_i-TW48azUA-phoUzt4of9be_tSoiKd+7Cww@mail.gmail.com>
[not found] ` <<CAFyQvY1iCMaF_EGOALyE-Gzy+nEy7r8O-pJ1SnWB=TvDuYk8nw@mail.gmail.com>
[not found] ` <<87a8vn75r7.fsf@mail.linkov.net>
[not found] ` <<CAAdUY-+CO3sSaz71qMsHJuET1J6Yd1tiosOKM+dC7VU=fCPQbQ@mail.gmail.com>
[not found] ` <<CAFyQvY2SZgZ+eJqHCi3Fgi1+fCkv5_m44=-rcVPi0aRwf3WuQg@mail.gmail.com>
[not found] ` <<0f72b0bd-0170-414c-b926-0b836a973d67@default>
[not found] ` <<CAAdUY-+4C3X1w+vvBDEJ+B07Ta33=z6b3RZ61RW1ex9C4uV5Ww@mail.gmail.com>
[not found] ` <<9b42a5bc-48e3-4111-b37d-280867903527@default>
[not found] ` <<CAAdUY-+wvuO7YYEWvj+G7ZkrKA-hE9n=QaqZvvpzyJCyDC_KFw@mail.gmail.com>
[not found] ` <<12de813f-cffa-4231-95a4-5b9ee2709123@default>
[not found] ` <<CAAdUY-KSjx=H8Mscii7Q6FNBO2UA4_RQw=9GjSPUYNrkKhSSgQ@mail.gmail.com>
[not found] ` <<a6bb8f58-1e27-47cc-8f77-766b8e8ff9b4@default>
[not found] ` <<834mltd0qk.fsf@gnu.org>
2015-06-27 15:34 ` ASCII-folded search [was: Re: Upcoming loss of usability ...] Drew Adams
2015-06-27 16:25 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-06-27 16:46 ` Artur Malabarba
2015-06-27 18:02 ` Drew Adams
[not found] ` <<87y4jkhqh5.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
[not found] ` <<E1Z4aDD-0005QL-Iq@fencepost.gnu.org>
[not found] ` <<557F3C22.4060909@cs.ucla.edu>
[not found] ` <<E1Z4tDG-0003St-DZ@fencepost.gnu.org>
[not found] ` <<5580D356.4050708@cs.ucla.edu>
[not found] ` <<87si9qonxb.fsf@gnu.org>
[not found] ` <<jwv8ubifq2g.fsf-monnier+emacs@gnu.org>
[not found] ` <<5581C29E.1030101@yandex.ru>
[not found] ` <<jwvbngdbq6r.fsf-monnier+emacs@gnu.org>
[not found] ` <<558D6A3D.1070706@yandex.ru>
[not found] ` <<jwv381etgqc.fsf-monnier+emacs@gnu.org>
[not found] ` <<877fqnzpno.fsf@gnu.org>
[not found] ` <<5590493C.8000007@yandex.ru>
[not found] ` <<87381bzife.fsf@gnu.org>
[not found] ` <<75f2fe0f-f15e-4af8-b9ae-0ddc9231c9ab@default>
[not found] ` <<83a8vi60ke.fsf@gnu.org>
2015-06-29 14:57 ` Upcoming loss of usability of Emacs source files and Emacs Drew Adams
2015-06-29 15:23 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-06-29 16:14 ` Drew Adams
2015-06-29 16:26 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-06-29 21:52 ` Richard Stallman
2015-06-30 2:42 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-06-30 16:53 ` Richard Stallman
2015-06-30 17:04 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-06-30 22:20 ` Paul Eggert
2015-07-01 16:19 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-07-01 19:33 ` Paul Eggert
2015-07-01 19:53 ` Eli Zaretskii
[not found] ` <<fc4de8bc-c7a6-4471-85cc-eaa9fcb34f7f@default>
[not found] ` <<83vbe64jyt.fsf@gnu.org>
[not found] ` <<800419d5-94b3-4325-a29f-e42678049f96@default>
[not found] ` <<83mvzi4h12.fsf@gnu.org>
2015-06-29 16:37 ` Drew Adams
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