From: David Kastrup <dak@gnu.org>
Cc: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org>, emacs-devel@gnu.org
Subject: Re: Strange eval-after-load
Date: Wed, 05 Jul 2006 11:09:24 +0200 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <85ejx0e7uj.fsf@lola.goethe.zz> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20060705085731.GB1418@muc.de> (Alan Mackenzie's message of "Wed, 5 Jul 2006 09:57:31 +0100")
Alan Mackenzie <acm@muc.de> writes:
> On Wed, Jul 05, 2006 at 06:20:41AM +0300, Eli Zaretskii wrote:
>> > Date: Tue, 4 Jul 2006 22:08:05 +0100
>> > From: Alan Mackenzie <acm@muc.de>
>> > Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org
>
>> > (eval-after-load "edebug" '(def-edebug-spec c-point t))
>
>> > To construe this form as "modifying the behaviour of another Lisp file
>> > (?edebug, presumably) in an invisible way" seems like a total perversion
>> > of reality to me. I would call this e-a-l "Telling another Lisp file
>> > how to handle the current one" - in essence, the module which is
>> > modified by this e-a-l is cc-defs, not edebug.
>
>> Doesn't "Telling another Lisp file how to handle the current one"
>> modify the behavior of that other package in a way that isn't visible
>> if you look at the code of that other package?
>
> Whether it does or not is surely independent of whether
> `def-edebug-spec' is called directly, or through eval-after-load.
> Again, this change is just as visible, whichever way the function is
> called. Surely?
Again, you are playing semantic games. The change is not visible
where it happens, namely at the (provide 'edebug).
> There is nothing objectionable about using the documented functional
> interface `def-edebug-spec'.
Straw man. Nobody objected to its use. What is objectional is that
its call happens at the (provide 'edebug) line without any visible
indication in edebug.el, and without any user-accessible variables or
hook that would allow for inspection and modification of the behavior.
A user won't have cause to be surprised if he added eval-after-load
himself. But expecting and tracking every such use that might be
hidden in Emacs' code base is a bit much.
>> In your example above, Edebug's behavior is modified, but one cannot
>> know that by reading Edebug's code alone.
>
> Why is this bad?
The reasons have been cited to you several times and it is in the
manual which also has been cited to you.
I think you are blinded by your wishes.
> I still don't understand. I'm trying to.
--
David Kastrup, Kriemhildstr. 15, 44793 Bochum
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2006-07-05 9:09 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 47+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2006-05-26 2:22 Strange eval-after-load Richard Stallman
2006-05-26 7:59 ` Eli Zaretskii
2006-05-26 14:20 ` Luc Teirlinck
2006-05-26 19:32 ` Eli Zaretskii
2006-05-27 3:36 ` Richard Stallman
2006-07-02 13:33 ` Hi, I'm back! + " Alan Mackenzie
2006-07-02 17:28 ` Thien-Thi Nguyen
2006-07-02 19:18 ` Alan Mackenzie
2006-07-03 15:05 ` Richard Stallman
2006-07-03 17:16 ` Alan Mackenzie
2006-07-03 16:28 ` Michael Albinus
2006-07-03 17:06 ` John Paul Wallington
2006-07-03 21:54 ` Alan Mackenzie
2006-07-03 21:48 ` Johan Bockgård
2006-07-04 12:54 ` Richard Stallman
2006-07-04 15:02 ` Alan Mackenzie
2006-07-04 20:52 ` Richard Stallman
2006-07-04 21:41 ` Bob Rogers
2006-07-05 16:38 ` Stuart D. Herring
2006-07-05 17:01 ` Richard Stallman
2006-07-02 22:30 ` Hi, I'm back! + " Richard Stallman
2006-07-03 10:57 ` Alan Mackenzie
2006-07-03 10:21 ` David Kastrup
2006-07-03 13:50 ` Alan Mackenzie
2006-07-03 23:21 ` Richard Stallman
2006-07-04 8:02 ` Alan Mackenzie
2006-07-04 7:15 ` David Kastrup
2006-07-04 10:04 ` Alan Mackenzie
2006-07-04 9:23 ` David Kastrup
2006-07-04 10:00 ` Nick Roberts
2006-07-04 13:08 ` Johan Bockgård
2006-07-04 14:17 ` Thien-Thi Nguyen
2006-07-04 17:30 ` Richard Stallman
2006-07-04 21:08 ` Alan Mackenzie
2006-07-04 21:48 ` Nick Roberts
2006-07-05 3:20 ` Eli Zaretskii
2006-07-05 8:57 ` Alan Mackenzie
2006-07-05 9:09 ` David Kastrup [this message]
2006-07-05 22:28 ` Alan Mackenzie
2006-07-06 6:49 ` David Kastrup
2006-07-07 4:14 ` Richard Stallman
2006-07-07 11:46 ` Alan Mackenzie
2006-07-05 17:02 ` Richard Stallman
2006-07-05 14:51 ` Richard Stallman
2006-07-05 18:01 ` Alan Mackenzie
2006-07-03 23:21 ` Richard Stallman
2006-07-03 23:21 ` Richard Stallman
Reply instructions:
You may reply publicly to this message via plain-text email
using any one of the following methods:
* Save the following mbox file, import it into your mail client,
and reply-to-all from there: mbox
Avoid top-posting and favor interleaved quoting:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style#Interleaved_style
List information: https://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/
* Reply using the --to, --cc, and --in-reply-to
switches of git-send-email(1):
git send-email \
--in-reply-to=85ejx0e7uj.fsf@lola.goethe.zz \
--to=dak@gnu.org \
--cc=eliz@gnu.org \
--cc=emacs-devel@gnu.org \
/path/to/YOUR_REPLY
https://kernel.org/pub/software/scm/git/docs/git-send-email.html
* If your mail client supports setting the In-Reply-To header
via mailto: links, try the mailto: link
Be sure your reply has a Subject: header at the top and a blank line
before the message body.
Code repositories for project(s) associated with this public inbox
https://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/emacs.git
This is a public inbox, see mirroring instructions
for how to clone and mirror all data and code used for this inbox;
as well as URLs for read-only IMAP folder(s) and NNTP newsgroup(s).