From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: David Kastrup Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: visual-line-mode Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2008 23:23:54 +0200 Message-ID: <85ej60ru6t.fsf@lola.goethe.zz> References: <87skuqbwr8.fsf@stupidchicken.com> <85E9BC5B-7337-4CD4-A783-6B2FAEBAEBCA@gmail.com> <87tzf6c5il.fsf@stupidchicken.com> <87abgxx0ju.fsf@stupidchicken.com> <4D997CA8-A2ED-4E12-9F91-76E98AE95210@gmail.com> <87prpsjhre.fsf@stupidchicken.com> <375C0006-2B47-4B1F-9EB2-ED47941C2DB3@gmail.com> <87od56tp4o.fsf@stupidchicken.com> <71C2D50C-1680-4ADD-A7E3-7B7A1146B85D@gmail.com> <87ej61n19h.fsf@stupidchicken.com> <87vdzdr6f6.fsf@catnip.gol.com> <87fxqhpblm.fsf@stupidchicken.com> <87iqvdrq92.fsf@stupidchicken.com> <41BE2BC8-BA2A-449E-B42A-25AA21AD7B22@gmail.com> <87y7486tux.fsf@catnip.gol.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1215811497 29220 80.91.229.12 (11 Jul 2008 21:24:57 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2008 21:24:57 +0000 (UTC) Cc: David Reitter , Chong Yidong , Emacs-Devel devel , "Lennart Borgman \(gmail\)" , Miles Bader To: Stefan Monnier Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Fri Jul 11 23:25:43 2008 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1KHQ7Q-0001Od-6S for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 11 Jul 2008 23:25:32 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:36902 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1KHQ6Y-0000rR-Dd for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 11 Jul 2008 17:24:38 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1KHQ62-0000W9-8E for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 11 Jul 2008 17:24:06 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1KHQ60-0000Ua-GL for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 11 Jul 2008 17:24:05 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (port=45902 helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1KHQ60-0000UL-8W for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 11 Jul 2008 17:24:04 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-in-13.arcor-online.net ([151.189.21.53]:40439) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS-1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1KHQ5t-00019I-F6; Fri, 11 Jul 2008 17:23:57 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-in-11-z2.arcor-online.net (mail-in-11-z2.arcor-online.net [151.189.8.28]) by mail-in-13.arcor-online.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id F061E1E4FF3; Fri, 11 Jul 2008 23:23:55 +0200 (CEST) Original-Received: from mail-in-17.arcor-online.net (mail-in-17.arcor-online.net [151.189.21.57]) by mail-in-11-z2.arcor-online.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id D6E6C3465A9; Fri, 11 Jul 2008 23:23:55 +0200 (CEST) Original-Received: from lola.goethe.zz (dslb-084-061-012-181.pools.arcor-ip.net [84.61.12.181]) by mail-in-17.arcor-online.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id B08672BCDEB; Fri, 11 Jul 2008 23:23:55 +0200 (CEST) Original-Received: by lola.goethe.zz (Postfix, from userid 1002) id 1042D1CFAEEE; Fri, 11 Jul 2008 23:23:54 +0200 (CEST) In-Reply-To: (Stefan Monnier's message of "Fri, 11 Jul 2008 17:18:41 -0400") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/23.0.60 (gnu/linux) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.93.3/7693/Fri Jul 11 17:56:33 2008 on mail-in-17.arcor-online.net X-Virus-Status: Clean X-detected-kernel: by monty-python.gnu.org: Linux 2.4-2.6 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:100596 Archived-At: Stefan Monnier writes: >>> OK, do I understand you right? Basic movement commands (when >>> interactive) on by default as per Stefan's method (which I agree is >>> better given the new feature of vertical-motion), and C-a/C-e/C-k in >>> a minor mode as per my code. > >> That doesn't make much sense -- _at least_ C-a/C-e need to act >> consistently with C-n/C-p. It's mind-boggling confusing when they >> don't. > >> Other commands, I dunno, though I think C-k should as well (Stefan >> apparently doesn't though). > > I'm mostly using it on files with few line wrapping, so in this > context, visual-line movement for C-p and C-n is not harmful in my > experience, but for things like C-a, C-e, and C-k I find it annoying. > E.g. I expect C-a C-k to kill the whole code line, not just the part > that happens to fit within my window's width. > > Also C-k is odd when operating on a visual line: if the line is > wrapped, then after C-k you'd end up still having text after point, > whereas I usually expect that after C-k point is at EOL. > > Maybe it's just me. I think it depends on what you use it for. If you are editing code, there is usually little overflow, and the overflow you have ends at an easily recognizable place, and the hard newlines carry meaning. If you are editing a novel where every paragraph is written without newlines, wrapping just being done to accommodate the editing window (but irrelevant for the result), you want to be able to edit and navigate with finer grained units than whole paragraphs. -- David Kastrup, Kriemhildstr. 15, 44793 Bochum