From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Stephen Leake Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Adding packages to ELPA Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2014 11:09:15 -0500 Message-ID: <85egv6ff4k.fsf@stephe-leake.org> References: <87wq97i78i.fsf@earlgrey.lan> <87sijqxzr2.fsf@newcastle.ac.uk> <877g11c8wh.fsf@gmx.us> <83fvfo15z7.fsf@gnu.org> <8361gj20h7.fsf@gnu.org> <83zjdvzmd5.fsf@gnu.org> <83tx43zfep.fsf@gnu.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1411229386 9363 80.91.229.3 (20 Sep 2014 16:09:46 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2014 16:09:46 +0000 (UTC) To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sat Sep 20 18:09:38 2014 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1XVNE8-00025R-GS for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 20 Sep 2014 18:09:36 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:35267 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XVNE7-0005CS-Rc for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 20 Sep 2014 12:09:35 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:34332) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XVNE0-0005BW-TH for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 20 Sep 2014 12:09:34 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XVNDv-0006f5-M6 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 20 Sep 2014 12:09:28 -0400 Original-Received: from dnvrco-outbound-snat.email.rr.com ([107.14.73.225]:30911 helo=dnvrco-oedge-vip.email.rr.com) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XVNDv-0006db-GL for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 20 Sep 2014 12:09:23 -0400 Original-Received: from [70.94.38.149] ([70.94.38.149:58058] helo=TAKVER) by dnvrco-oedge02 (envelope-from ) (ecelerity 3.5.0.35861 r(Momo-dev:tip)) with ESMTP id 48/0C-08316-DA6AD145; Sat, 20 Sep 2014 16:09:17 +0000 In-Reply-To: <83tx43zfep.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Fri, 19 Sep 2014 20:30:38 +0300") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.3 (windows-nt) X-RR-Connecting-IP: 107.14.64.130:25 X-Authority-Analysis: v=2.1 cv=ReIeCjdv c=1 sm=1 tr=0 a=AppmJ/7ZOOFWL/q6u6u93g==:117 a=AppmJ/7ZOOFWL/q6u6u93g==:17 a=ayC55rCoAAAA:8 a=9XSUBuVRJI8A:10 a=LBlZr-Nq7rYA:10 a=o_R75loqY_IA:10 a=9i_RQKNPAAAA:8 a=mDV3o1hIAAAA:8 a=-PeQVhEmlYWznJNojOcA:9 a=ii61gXl28gQA:10 X-Cloudmark-Score: 0 X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: BaiduSpider X-Received-From: 107.14.73.225 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:174584 Archived-At: Eli Zaretskii writes: >> From: Stefan Monnier >> Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org >> Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2014 12:34:54 -0400 >> >> >> - GNU ELPA packages can be released on their own schedule. >> > Same is true if they are in the Emacs repository. >> >> Not really. There are always interferences one way or the other between >> Emacs's release cycle and the packages's own release cycles. > > No, I mean that a package that is part of Emacs can be used to create > a separate tarball disregarding the rest of Emacs. After all, once > you checkout the repo, they are just file in a certain directory. How would the typical Emacs/ELPA user use that "separate tarball"? Currently, to release a new version of Ada mode, I just update the elpa repository, incrementing the version in ada-mode.el header. Then users will see the new version when they next do 'list-packages', and can install from there. What would that process look like if I followed your approach? Part of the point of ELPA is to make this process as easy as possible; it seems a good design to me. >> >> - we're not seriously affected by bugs in GNU ELPA packages since they >> >> can be fixed and released independently. >> > This is actually a disadvantage: it contributes to the lower quality >> > of their code. >> >> I feel like we're already stretched pretty thin, so adding more packages >> into Emacs's core would probably not improve those packages by much, and >> if it does, it'd probably be to the detriment of others. +1 I find it _much_ easier to fix bugs in Ada mode, now that it is somewhat independent of Emacs core. I realize that means I'm not working on Emacs core (except when Ada mode is directly affected by a bug/lack of feature), but I would not be anyway. >> >> - the maintainer of `foo' might not like to have to download a 300MB >> >> repository to hack on her 300-lines package. >> > ELPA is currently 52MB on my disk, which is not negligible (if 300MB >> > aren't). Does this mean you will change your mind when ELPA hits >> > 100MB? >> >> Indeed, and that is also a problem. For that reason, more of the newer >> packages are added as branches rather than as directories in the main >> branch. This mean you don't need the whole repository to hack on them. > > I have 1.5TB of disk storage on my main development machine. I refuse > to believe that these small figures make a difference to someone these > days. For me, the problem with having Ada mode directly in ELPA is reviewing the git commit log to see if anyone else edited the Ada mode code. I ended up skipping that, and relying on ediff with my own repository (I don't find it convenient to use the ELPA repository directly for development; for one thing, I prefer monotone over git). I'm not clear on how to "put a package on an external branch" (yes, I have read Stefan's posts on that; they are too cryptic), but perhaps I should try that. -- -- Stephe