From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.ciao.gmane.io!not-for-mail From: Drew Adams Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: RE: GNU ELPA package discoverability Date: Mon, 25 May 2020 07:50:11 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <85e76797-bd73-4c9d-9fe9-8dbf1870c2d2@default> References: <35DBF02E-44D7-41E5-A217-7D6EC84ED221@icloud.com> <4e937898-ae46-710a-cbca-e452a1156fa1@yandex.ru> <2e630dc7-ba1d-e4c9-74b3-4da976db1e82@yandex.ru> <87imglg51l.fsf@gnu.org> <83d06txuv4.fsf@gnu.org> <871rn9l35o.fsf@gnu.org> <83tv05waob.fsf@gnu.org> <874ks5gtca.fsf@gnu.org> <87h7w4oh5x.fsf@sachachua.com> <87o8qclael.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="ciao.gmane.io:159.69.161.202"; logging-data="57640"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: Eli Zaretskii , rms@gnu.org, Emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Bastien , Sacha Chua Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Mon May 25 16:51:24 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1jdERo-000Etb-D5 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; 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envelope-from=drew.adams@oracle.com; helo=userp2120.oracle.com X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: First seen = 2020/05/25 10:50:14 X-ACL-Warn: Detected OS = Linux 3.1-3.10 [fuzzy] X-Spam_score_int: -43 X-Spam_score: -4.4 X-Spam_bar: ---- X-Spam_report: (-4.4 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001 autolearn=_AUTOLEARN X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:251365 Archived-At: > I suggest to try enhancing the discoverability "upstream", by updating > the default Emacs menu bar. >=20 > For now, package is present in two menus: [Options] and [Help]. >=20 > [Options] contains "Manage Emacs Packages" which M-x > list-packages, so it does not solve the problem you > are insisting on. IMO, `Manage Emacs Packages' should never have been added to menu `Options'. That menu is essentially for setting user options (especially Boolean ones). And it shouldn't be called "Manage" anything (weasel word). That command (`list-packages') is akin to commands `list-faces-display' and `list-colors-display'. Those are in submenu `Edit > Text Properties', as `Display Faces' and `Display Colors'. Do they belong there? Not really. IMO, such lists belong under `Help > Describe', just like `List Key Bindings'. Their first-order use is for listing stuff. (Secondarily, you can get more info about the stuff listed by clicking parts of the display.) Similarly, `Edit > Text Properties > Display Properties' is akin to the various items in `Help > Describe'. I'd suggest moving all such to `Help > Describe'. And all that are about listing stuff should have similar names: `List XYZ' or `Display XYZ', but not a mix of `List' and `Display'.=20 Menu `Help' should be used for obtaining information about stuff, which can include exploring/discovering stuff. It's not primarily for accessing stuff, to use it, or for changing stuff. `Tools' is OK for accessing/using stuff that doesn't fit elsewhere (e.g. under `Edit'). It's not the place for finding out about packages etc. (FWIW, in my `menu-bar+.el' there's a top-level `Search' menu, which has the `Search' and `Replace' submenus from `Edit'. And `Edit' submenus `Go To' and `Bookmarks' are instead on `Files' - they're not about editing.) `Help > Search Built-in Packages' is misnamed. It's not about searching. The doc string for that command is "Find packages matching a given keyword." It's not obvious from the name that what gets listed by it are not packages but categories of packages (by keyword). (And from there you can find lists of packages per keyword.) It should be called something like `Packages By Category' or `Describe Packages By Keyword'. `Help > Describe' already has `Describe Package...'. That submenu is also the place for `finder-by-keyword' (`Describe Packages By Keyword'). `Help > Finding Extra Packages' should be called something like `Getting More Packages', and it should be placed in the same part of menu `Help' as `Getting New Versions' (which should be called `Getting New Emacs Versions').