From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: David Kastrup Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Info tutorial is out of date Date: Sat, 15 Jul 2006 17:04:06 +0200 Message-ID: <858xmu9aft.fsf@lola.goethe.zz> References: NNTP-Posting-Host: main.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1152978285 6096 80.91.229.2 (15 Jul 2006 15:44:45 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 15 Jul 2006 15:44:45 +0000 (UTC) Cc: Emacs-Devel Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sat Jul 15 17:44:43 2006 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by ciao.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1G1mJu-00034N-LC for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 15 Jul 2006 17:44:42 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1G1mJu-0000mn-5d for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 15 Jul 2006 11:44:42 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1G1mJB-0000ZE-Pp for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 15 Jul 2006 11:43:57 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1G1mJB-0000Ym-2P for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 15 Jul 2006 11:43:57 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1G1mJA-0000Yi-Uq for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 15 Jul 2006 11:43:56 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.164] (helo=fencepost.gnu.org) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.52) id 1G1mLP-0002s5-W0 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 15 Jul 2006 11:46:16 -0400 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lola.goethe.zz) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1G1mJ9-000431-SH; Sat, 15 Jul 2006 11:43:56 -0400 Original-Received: by lola.goethe.zz (Postfix, from userid 1002) id 0E9C41C36610; Sat, 15 Jul 2006 17:04:06 +0200 (CEST) Original-To: "Drew Adams" In-Reply-To: (Drew Adams's message of "Sat, 15 Jul 2006 07:44:42 -0700") User-Agent: Gnus/5.11 (Gnus v5.11) Emacs/22.0.50 (gnu/linux) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:57051 Archived-At: "Drew Adams" writes: [...] > In general (exceptions can be made), key bindings should not be > introduced until much later, and then they should be introduced as > shortcuts for functionalities the user already knows by then. It is > the functionalities that should be on the agenda, not the keys. The > emphasis is all wrong in this respect. You lose the forest of > functionalities because of all the trees of keys. I disagree with most of your posting. Mouse navigation remains an inefficient crutch compared to keys. It is somewhat efficient for exact cursor positioning, but that still requires letting go of the keyboard. Using info efficiently entails using the keys. Of course, this is doubly important on ttys or for disabled people, but in any case there is absolutely no sane rationale for futzing around with scroll bars when the space bar is fully accessible. And most scroll bars don't even allow you changing the direction of scrolling without having to move the mouse -- David Kastrup, Kriemhildstr. 15, 44793 Bochum